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	<title>Comments on: iPod owners are thieves</title>
	<atom:link href="http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/</link>
	<description>TheAppleBlog, published by and for the day-to-day Apple user, is a prominent source for news, reviews, walkthroughs, and real life application of all Apple products.</description>
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		<title>By: Zune</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9547</link>
		<dc:creator>Zune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Dec 2006 16:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9547</guid>
		<description>I got this zune download that is a blast. i am glad microsoft is catching up. I know they get a lot of flack but i like them</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got this zune download that is a blast. i am glad microsoft is catching up. I know they get a lot of flack but i like them</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9546</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Nov 2006 11:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9546</guid>
		<description>Well payola my crack whore. Nothing like spin to keep one in business, eh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well payola my crack whore. Nothing like spin to keep one in business, eh?</p>
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		<title>By: little</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9545</link>
		<dc:creator>little</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Nov 2006 09:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9545</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see microsoft donating money like the red nano. I guess that&#039;s why they made a brown zune rather a red one. LMAO</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see microsoft donating money like the red nano. I guess that&#8217;s why they made a brown zune rather a red one. LMAO</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mantiz</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9544</link>
		<dc:creator>Mantiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9544</guid>
		<description>They are absolutely insane, with an online store like iTunes you take away the distribution part of the music, so it actually cost&#039;s less(for them) to sell via an online store, and now they are complaining about it and demand more money?

macdaddy1, that&#039;s the best idea ever, yeah you pay for the zune which has a higher price because of the illegal music you will put in it.
So you actually paid to play illegal music on it, Brilliant!!!

Oh and to everyone blaming m$ for this, it&#039;s hardly their idea, it was probably a proposition &quot;if you don&#039;t pay us you don&#039;t sell us&quot;.

Also consider that apple has a contract for iTunes with the same companies, so it will not be long before they demand for a part of iPods profits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They are absolutely insane, with an online store like iTunes you take away the distribution part of the music, so it actually cost&#8217;s less(for them) to sell via an online store, and now they are complaining about it and demand more money?</p>
<p>macdaddy1, that&#8217;s the best idea ever, yeah you pay for the zune which has a higher price because of the illegal music you will put in it.<br />
So you actually paid to play illegal music on it, Brilliant!!!</p>
<p>Oh and to everyone blaming m$ for this, it&#8217;s hardly their idea, it was probably a proposition &#8220;if you don&#8217;t pay us you don&#8217;t sell us&#8221;.</p>
<p>Also consider that apple has a contract for iTunes with the same companies, so it will not be long before they demand for a part of iPods profits.</p>
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		<title>By: macdaddy1</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9543</link>
		<dc:creator>macdaddy1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9543</guid>
		<description>I will now buy a Zune because all of the music I have been stealing by downloading online will be covered by the de facto license Microsoft and Universal created when they added the license surcharge onto the cost of the Zune.

I figure I&#039;m getting off cheap as I think I have in excess of 20,000 songs, all downloaded, all free and all covered!

What&#039;s better than that?

Thank you Microsoft and Universal for giving me a guilt free, honorable way to continue adding to my collection all the while insuring that the artists are being completely compensated for all of their hard work, time and trouble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will now buy a Zune because all of the music I have been stealing by downloading online will be covered by the de facto license Microsoft and Universal created when they added the license surcharge onto the cost of the Zune.</p>
<p>I figure I&#8217;m getting off cheap as I think I have in excess of 20,000 songs, all downloaded, all free and all covered!</p>
<p>What&#8217;s better than that?</p>
<p>Thank you Microsoft and Universal for giving me a guilt free, honorable way to continue adding to my collection all the while insuring that the artists are being completely compensated for all of their hard work, time and trouble.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9542</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 06:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9542</guid>
		<description>The one thing I can&#039;t understand is the music business is pulling in more sales for artist then ever before and paying them less.

All because an iTunes user can then hear the music they bought immediately. Putting companies like Tower Records out of business. After all do you really what to wait a week to listen to an album if you buy it online.

Yet with all this new found money Record Companies still complain.

The reason music stores never worked is because most of the time Buying an album of a new artist that you might like was like finding a needle throw a hay stack.

At least with iTunes you can hear 30 sec. of the track to even consider it to find what you might like.

I think the record companies are getting very greedy.

I recently joined Itunes 6 mo.&#039;s ago I put it off because I was scared I might BUY to much and I was right. I checked my credit card the other day to find I have spent close to $3000 in music, TV shows, and Movies in that time. Otherwise I would have never spent that money. I am sure this is the case with most users and all Legal as far AS I know. I bought a product and I received one. Does it really mater what format?

And if you are an audiophile you are only going to buy the DVD Audio or SACD version later to hear the full sound on your home Sound Equipment you spent a fortune to get.

I think the real reason this Record Companies are scared is that it will be easer for new and existing artist to release there own stuff throw this new mediums and the record companies don&#039;t ever won&#039;t a new artiest to have a taste of the money that can be made with out the labels controlling them.

If this happens everyone will get on board the truth is it is already happening.

After All you still can&#039;t buy music that is available on iTunes in other countries but not ours. Which is a lot of foreign music that is in other languages and current and allot of it is good. Just another control facet of the music industry for moneys sake of greed.

This is just my rant of how disconnected companies are from reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The one thing I can&#8217;t understand is the music business is pulling in more sales for artist then ever before and paying them less.</p>
<p>All because an iTunes user can then hear the music they bought immediately. Putting companies like Tower Records out of business. After all do you really what to wait a week to listen to an album if you buy it online.</p>
<p>Yet with all this new found money Record Companies still complain.</p>
<p>The reason music stores never worked is because most of the time Buying an album of a new artist that you might like was like finding a needle throw a hay stack.</p>
<p>At least with iTunes you can hear 30 sec. of the track to even consider it to find what you might like.</p>
<p>I think the record companies are getting very greedy.</p>
<p>I recently joined Itunes 6 mo.&#8217;s ago I put it off because I was scared I might BUY to much and I was right. I checked my credit card the other day to find I have spent close to $3000 in music, TV shows, and Movies in that time. Otherwise I would have never spent that money. I am sure this is the case with most users and all Legal as far AS I know. I bought a product and I received one. Does it really mater what format?</p>
<p>And if you are an audiophile you are only going to buy the DVD Audio or SACD version later to hear the full sound on your home Sound Equipment you spent a fortune to get.</p>
<p>I think the real reason this Record Companies are scared is that it will be easer for new and existing artist to release there own stuff throw this new mediums and the record companies don&#8217;t ever won&#8217;t a new artiest to have a taste of the money that can be made with out the labels controlling them.</p>
<p>If this happens everyone will get on board the truth is it is already happening.</p>
<p>After All you still can&#8217;t buy music that is available on iTunes in other countries but not ours. Which is a lot of foreign music that is in other languages and current and allot of it is good. Just another control facet of the music industry for moneys sake of greed.</p>
<p>This is just my rant of how disconnected companies are from reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9541</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 04:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9541</guid>
		<description>12937 songs. All legal. I guess Doug Morris doesn&#039;t want my money.

This attempt to monetize every aspect of media is really offputting. I relish the day when I can give my money directly to the artists. Because, at this point, the labels add literally *nothing* of value to the process. Music, given a channel, can market itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>12937 songs. All legal. I guess Doug Morris doesn&#8217;t want my money.</p>
<p>This attempt to monetize every aspect of media is really offputting. I relish the day when I can give my money directly to the artists. Because, at this point, the labels add literally *nothing* of value to the process. Music, given a channel, can market itself.</p>
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		<title>By: sjmills</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9540</link>
		<dc:creator>sjmills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Nov 2006 01:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9540</guid>
		<description>Ack. saw = say</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ack. saw = say</p>
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		<title>By: &#160; Zune launches - outlook not so good&#160;by&#160;Apple Gazette</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9539</link>
		<dc:creator>&#160; Zune launches - outlook not so good&#160;by&#160;Apple Gazette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9539</guid>
		<description>[...] When you combine negative reviews with a confusing (and shady) payment system, AND setting an unbelievable precedent by paying studio executives a precentage of hardware sales because quote: “These devices are just repositories for stolen music, and they all know it,” UMG chairman/CEO Doug Morris says. “So it’s time to get paid for it.” - Universal Music Group [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] When you combine negative reviews with a confusing (and shady) payment system, AND setting an unbelievable precedent by paying studio executives a precentage of hardware sales because quote: “These devices are just repositories for stolen music, and they all know it,” UMG chairman/CEO Doug Morris says. “So it’s time to get paid for it.” &#8211; Universal Music Group [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9538</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9538</guid>
		<description>Most record companies are run by pigs. It&#039;s a fact. I saw to hell with UMG and Microsoft. Besides, &lt;i&gt;brown&lt;/i&gt;??? How ugly is that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most record companies are run by pigs. It&#8217;s a fact. I saw to hell with UMG and Microsoft. Besides, <i>brown</i>??? How ugly is that?</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9537</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9537</guid>
		<description>Patently ridiculous.  Even if everyone did pirate, they wouldn&#039;t have a right (legal or moral) to go about it this way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patently ridiculous.  Even if everyone did pirate, they wouldn&#8217;t have a right (legal or moral) to go about it this way.</p>
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		<title>By: Thinking and Driving &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Break up with your favorite band</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9536</link>
		<dc:creator>Thinking and Driving &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Break up with your favorite band</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9536</guid>
		<description>[...] I had an epiphany this morning while showering at the gym. I had an idea on how to react civilly to the sort of idocity that drives people to lash out and accuse their own customers of breaking the law.; break up with your favorite band. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I had an epiphany this morning while showering at the gym. I had an idea on how to react civilly to the sort of idocity that drives people to lash out and accuse their own customers of breaking the law.; break up with your favorite band. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Thinking and Driving &#187; Blog Archive &#187; &#8220;iPod users are all theives.&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9535</link>
		<dc:creator>Thinking and Driving &#187; Blog Archive &#187; &#8220;iPod users are all theives.&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9535</guid>
		<description>[...] As I posted in comment on TAB,  &#8220;I don&#8217;t know about anyone else. But I&#8217;m certainly going to be a LOT less inclined to purchase any music released by Universal, or any of their shell labels. Not that I&#8217;ll be more inclinced to pirate, mind you. Any artist who chooses to ally themselves with such narrow-mindedness doesn&#8217;t deserve to have me as a consumer, let alone a fan.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] As I posted in comment on TAB,  &#8220;I don&#8217;t know about anyone else. But I&#8217;m certainly going to be a LOT less inclined to purchase any music released by Universal, or any of their shell labels. Not that I&#8217;ll be more inclinced to pirate, mind you. Any artist who chooses to ally themselves with such narrow-mindedness doesn&#8217;t deserve to have me as a consumer, let alone a fan.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ThinkandDrive</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9534</link>
		<dc:creator>ThinkandDrive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9534</guid>
		<description>This morning, I had an idea on how to react civilly to this sort of idocity;  break up with your favorite band.

I will be going through UMG&#039;s stable of labels and artists to compile a list of the artists that I genuinely like and respect.  I will be composing a letter to them expressing my regret that, although I enjoy their music, I will no longer patronize their art or their label.  I will explain that it&#039;s not them, it&#039;s their &quot;daddy&quot; that&#039;s the problem.  I will be clear to let them know that it&#039;s the business practices of their parent label that is costing them both their livelyhood and fans.  Though they don&#039;t really hold any weight with UMG, if enough of them jump ship (not likely) or complain (more likely), perhaps we can get that moron to wake up.

Then, and this is the hard part, I will actually delete or destroy all copies of their music.  Lots of us online talk big about &quot;I&#039;m never going to XXXX ever again.&quot; or &quot;I will purge my collection of all ill-gotten music.&quot;  But do we ever?  Nah.  Not really.

Mr. Morris will get exactly what he wants here, none of his music will be on my iPod.  I hope he&#039;s happy.

I&#039;ll post this letter to my blog when it&#039;s done so any one else who wants to do the same thing can.  http://thinkinganddriving.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This morning, I had an idea on how to react civilly to this sort of idocity;  break up with your favorite band.</p>
<p>I will be going through UMG&#8217;s stable of labels and artists to compile a list of the artists that I genuinely like and respect.  I will be composing a letter to them expressing my regret that, although I enjoy their music, I will no longer patronize their art or their label.  I will explain that it&#8217;s not them, it&#8217;s their &#8220;daddy&#8221; that&#8217;s the problem.  I will be clear to let them know that it&#8217;s the business practices of their parent label that is costing them both their livelyhood and fans.  Though they don&#8217;t really hold any weight with UMG, if enough of them jump ship (not likely) or complain (more likely), perhaps we can get that moron to wake up.</p>
<p>Then, and this is the hard part, I will actually delete or destroy all copies of their music.  Lots of us online talk big about &#8220;I&#8217;m never going to XXXX ever again.&#8221; or &#8220;I will purge my collection of all ill-gotten music.&#8221;  But do we ever?  Nah.  Not really.</p>
<p>Mr. Morris will get exactly what he wants here, none of his music will be on my iPod.  I hope he&#8217;s happy.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll post this letter to my blog when it&#8217;s done so any one else who wants to do the same thing can.  <a href="http://thinkinganddriving.com" rel="nofollow">http://thinkinganddriving.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ralph</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9533</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9533</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;therefore he is just plain scared and needs to verbally lash out!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

and insult owners of portables of thievery. I&#039;d like to know, what this insane guy has on his device.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>therefore he is just plain scared and needs to verbally lash out!</p></blockquote>
<p>and insult owners of portables of thievery. I&#8217;d like to know, what this insane guy has on his device.</p>
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		<title>By: flunky</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9532</link>
		<dc:creator>flunky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9532</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s face it the guy is probably someone who just doesn&#039;t understand the technology (and isn&#039;t get a cut in the massive boom of portable players), therefore he is just plain scared and needs to verbally lash out!

Like many others I haven&#039;t bought a cd for years, but thanks to ITunes and other sites like Warp Records I am able to not have to go into a packed cd store and blind pick a cd I might not even like...VIVA LA DIGITAL AGE!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s face it the guy is probably someone who just doesn&#8217;t understand the technology (and isn&#8217;t get a cut in the massive boom of portable players), therefore he is just plain scared and needs to verbally lash out!</p>
<p>Like many others I haven&#8217;t bought a cd for years, but thanks to ITunes and other sites like Warp Records I am able to not have to go into a packed cd store and blind pick a cd I might not even like&#8230;VIVA LA DIGITAL AGE!!</p>
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		<title>By: &#8220;The weight of the world can really crush ones mind.&#8221; &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Welcome to THE social!</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9531</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8220;The weight of the world can really crush ones mind.&#8221; &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Welcome to THE social!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 04:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9531</guid>
		<description>[...] CLICK HERE [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] CLICK HERE [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Heywood</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9530</link>
		<dc:creator>Heywood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9530</guid>
		<description>What about ripping tunes from CD&#039;s that you already bought legally, just like making tapes for the car? No one thought that people who made car tapes were thieves... it escapes me how just owning and using an iPod makes you a &quot;thief&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about ripping tunes from CD&#8217;s that you already bought legally, just like making tapes for the car? No one thought that people who made car tapes were thieves&#8230; it escapes me how just owning and using an iPod makes you a &#8220;thief&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: thraxisp</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9529</link>
		<dc:creator>thraxisp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9529</guid>
		<description>The recording industry tried this in Canada. A $25 tax was placed on MP3 players. After a few years and a number of complaints, it was determined to be unconstitutional and the money was returned to consumers. You should prbably be contacting your elected officials.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The recording industry tried this in Canada. A $25 tax was placed on MP3 players. After a few years and a number of complaints, it was determined to be unconstitutional and the money was returned to consumers. You should prbably be contacting your elected officials.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9528</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theappleblog.com/2006/11/13/ipod-owners-are-thieves/#comment-9528</guid>
		<description>Did not a well-known executive from Microsoft make a similar statement regarding iPod owners a few years back? It&#039;s no wonder MS and UMG are in cahoots. They&#039;re like peas in a pod. I wonder how MS will feel once hackers start going after their DRM to circumvent the wireless sharing? And how will the labels feel once the platform is not secure... once it is revealed that yes, Zune users are thieves, too? Off topic, sorry... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did not a well-known executive from Microsoft make a similar statement regarding iPod owners a few years back? It&#8217;s no wonder MS and UMG are in cahoots. They&#8217;re like peas in a pod. I wonder how MS will feel once hackers start going after their DRM to circumvent the wireless sharing? And how will the labels feel once the platform is not secure&#8230; once it is revealed that yes, Zune users are thieves, too? Off topic, sorry&#8230; :)</p>
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