Mac users aren’t ‘real people with real jobs’
Written on December 03, 2006 by Eddie Hargreaves and 106 people have commented
Computerworld recently posted an advance excerpt from the newsletter of Windows expert Scot Finnie, detailing how he was making a MacBook Pro his main work and personal computer for 1-3 months.
He’s testing how well it works with his necessary applications (Lotus Notes and Eudora) and is clearly giving it a chance, considering the laptop was spontaneously restarting due to a faulty 1GB RAM chip. And at the end, he lets his readers know:
I expect to wrap up with a final assessment of whether the Mac is a viable alternative for real people with real jobs.
Gee, thanks, Scot, for letting all of us current Mac users know that we apparently aren’t real people and we don’t have real jobs. We eagerly await your validation.
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#1 edward says:what are you talking about? are you having prejudice on mac? you’re totally wrong. I work with my mac all day long. who do you think you are? you have no idea what you said. of course, particular jobs need only windows base. but it’s not broad. according to the poll, mac users earn much money than PC users. average $75,000. so they don’t work for real jobs? how do they make that money? explain. get a life.
#2 Brian says:Oh quit your bitchin’. Windows machines are far better suited for business needs. Not because Windows is a superior OS, but because it has 15 years worth of third party business applications written for it. I’m talking about stuff like collaborative suites, CRM software like SAP, PeopleSoft and JD Edwards, etc. The kind of software that real deal publicly traded multi-million (billion) dollar companies use for large scale logistical operations. The funny thing is, Apple is fully aware of this and has no problem coming out and saying it themselves, just look at their current ad campaign.
Apple is aware of their identity and doesn’t try to be something they aren’t. Macs fit well in the creative niche, like music, movies, image manipulation and all that stuff, both on the consumer level and professional level. They also work great for web design and students.
This is coming from someone who uses Windows at work and a Mac at home. I love my mac but could never use it to do my day job.
#3 Jay says:Coming from a guy who still uses the .htm extension? Give me a break..
#4 dogdayediting says:I’m glad to not have a “real” job. My “fake” job gives me a great deal of satisfaction, it’s a lot of fun, and make a great “real” income.
Our business doesn’t need a staff IT person, we don’t spend a bunch of money or time fixing or troubleshooting problems. Everything works as it’s supposed to, and when something breaks, it can be fixed without having to go to Nick Burns, Computer Guy.
Windows people can keep their “real” jobs. Actually, I wish they would stay out of the entertainment/content creation world - their products are dumbing down the industry.
It’s been nice being the best-kept secret for creative production. Now that the Mac is making strides into the “real” business world, we are forced to listen to tools like this Mr. Finnie with his tone of how cute a Mac is.
oh well.
#5 TannerC says:I think dogdayediting said it right, nothing beats a “fake” job.
#6 JulesLt says:The ‘Macs are good in the creative niche’ does need dispelling, as they’re pretty good in the scientific and web app development spaces too - with one caveat - IE6 being the main web app client you need to test for.
Personally, seeing as I spend most of my Windows life connected to Unix servers, I’d be happy to switch my day machine to a Mac. On the other hand, our MCSE techies would probably be happy to see the back of the Unix servers and get us onto Windows throughout. A lot of our customers have gone that way on similar reasons - it’s easier to get MCSE staff and they recommend MS systems.
#7 Evangelist Mackie says:It’s too bad it seems Scott has become so dependent on Notes as well as Eudora. I know how hard it is to make the switch from apps that become part of your workflow, but Notes and Eudora aren’t pretty, or up-to-date, on any OS, and I suspect will only show their age more and more as time goes on. Or, am I talking about Windows?
In any case there are more modern and productive apps I’d suggest.
But it seems he’s found a provocative subject, and I’m eager to hear about the areas that Mac applications can improve on.
Read: Great opportunity for aspiring developers…
#8 Justin Kistner says:It’s sad people still fight about this. Macs and PCs have their pros and cons. Find out which system works for you and be happy that it does. I personally run a Mac and I work for a interactive design firm that is quite real.
#9 Oliver says:some things never change do they? it’s like being in the playground all over again. Optimus Prime or Megatron? Spiderman or Batman?
who gives at rat’s arse who or what’s superior. it’s just a shame that this Finnie fellow seems to have an outlet for his rather ill thought out opinions. it’s also a shame that this could be considered valid “journalism”, unless it was designed purelt o push peoples buttons - in which case mission accomplished.
#10 Oliver says:some things never change do they? it’s like being in the playground all over again. Optimus Prime or Megatron? Spiderman or Batman?
who gives at rat’s arse who or what’s superior. it’s just a shame that this Finnie fellow seems to have an outlet for his rather ill thought out opinions. it’s also a shame that this could be considered valid “journalism”, unless it was designed purely to push peoples buttons - in which case mission accomplished.
#11 David Teare says:“Real” jobs are supposed to suck. People who use Macs have a zeal for their jobs and an appreciation for beauty.
I therefore agree: Mac’s aren’t made for the real jobs that our parents all told us to get.
#12 Nicholas says:I wouldn’t say Mac owners aren’t “real people with real jobs”, as much as I would say Mac owners aren’t trying to be “real” …. real is boring.
#13 Honza says:Many administrators and techies that I know at IBM use Macs at work to do their jobs, and they are more productive than they are on their PC’s. BTW, Lotus Notes and Sametime is crap, whatever it’s installed on.
@2:
SAP does NOT run on windows desktops. It’s server based, and runs on many OS’es like Solaris,AIX,OS390/400,NT,W2K etc. Maybe you are thinking about the windows SAP client? Hmm let me see. SAPGUI - This is a JAVA app…
#14 MisterKen says:And ‘Windows expert’ is a real job?
Oh please…
#15 Pat says:MisterKen hit the nail on the head.
#16 chuck says:and come on… lotus notes and eudora? macs are really built for heavy video editing and image editing. photoshop is always slow and unresponsive on my pc, but when im at work on the g4 editor, i fly through editing chunks of video and large images with no slowdowns.
pcs really are good for a variety of low level business applications that dont take as much computer power. the only reason anybody really upgrades their pcs anymore is to play games. because really, none of the important regularly used applications require vast system upgrades regularly.
with a mac, its a powerhouse for a reason, and if youre using it for crap like freaking lotus notes, youre not going to have a good opinion to begin with because youre using it for the wrong reasons.
dont get me wrong, a mac can handle lotus notes, but if you want to get a lot out of it, youve got to use it for what its really made to handle.
#17 woolie says:Digging yourself into proprietary formats is just asking for a beating you will never forget. Expert or not, a hole like that is one you build for yourself.
Anyway, I’m a student in a computational biology lab. Many people in my group are switching to OSX/x86 from Linux after seeing my success with a MBP.
#18 KenLenny says:In response to chuck (#16):
I agree, on a PC you don’t need the hardware upgrades so much for the useful applications. On a Mac however, things are a bit different: you really need a fast processor for them and that’s why Macs are so much better, because they get that processor power. I mean sure a new PC might be faster than a G5 but nobody needs that speed unless they play games. On the PC the apps are fast even on slower computers, unlike on slower Macs - that’s why the Mac is clearly superior.
#19 tugger says:I use macs to fix PCs. Thats my REAL job. I spend my time getting Windows XP back up and running from virus attacks, registry errors, and natural windows deaths. I make a very nice living, thank-you Mr. Gates.
PCs have a niche too, the only thing they are any use for is a medium sized company workstation. Of the top 100 companies, only 11 use microsoft products, and thats only as dumb workstations.
Small companies don’t have the IT resources to keep XP up and running and sole users can’t afford microsoft extortionate licence costs.
In a nutshell, PCs are fine for single-player games and dumb MS Office boxes, however they are totally unsuitable for any internet use, multimedia, design, email or IM. XP/Vista simply doesn’t have the ability to operate RELIABLY in a business environment without an IT Team to constantly maintain it. And yes, that applies to Vista too.
On a PC with only Vista installed, no other software, no internet or network access, vista will fall over (of it’s own accord) after an average of 470 reboots. Thats a huge improvement over XP, but we’re talking about the longest period between OS installs being a maximum of 22 months for an average business user. Not good enough. MS needs to start again.
If I was a PC business user, I’d go to Ubuntu, and never look back.
#20 nick says:Amusingly enough, Windows is the only OS I can think of under which I _can’t_ do my job (as a professional) with a default installation. No SSH means it’s actually no use to me at all. I’m a firm believer in ‘right tool for the right job’, and for me Windows isn’t it.
#21 WannaBe says:HMMM… so if I get a mac, I get a fake job, more money and my creativity shoots up a notch or two… on the other had a PC means I have a real job, but I will get a smaller salary. What a pack of HOGWASH. Do you people realise how stupid all of this sounds come on get real, you people are seriously brainwashed…
#22 Anmol says:Apple fanboys are TRUE fanboys.
other will use what ever will do the job better (either quicker more efficiently or at less price).
But apple fanboys are soo obsessed with Apple and MacOSX that they tend to believe that it is the best thing ever.
Their chauvinistic nature cannot explain why the majority of computer user still use PC/Windows ? what was the market share 5%.
#23 Fomalhaut says:Real?
Think Different.
#24 A Windows expert is hardly an IT expert. says:A windows expert is far divided from being an IT expert. There are masses of mission-critical applications that have never and will never run on windows or dos. Most of which actually run on the unix platform soley. You can run these on a mac due to it’s BSD heritage. Sure it’s not a lickable aqua gui, but that’s not the point, it’s often not even a gui application. Sure a lot of programs to organise information are on windows(this is the unimportant part), however their back ends which do the actual operations are usually on other platforms entirely such as QNX and other native POSIX compliant systems(Windows is only POSIX when you run the add-on software from MS, basically a kind of emulation.) This is where a blue screen style crash isn’t an accepted nor expected practice. Those billions of dollars flying between accounts, air traffic control, electrical grids and water systems… it’s not an MS 2000 server sunshine. Come to the real world of “important” computing and get out of your desktop experience.
#25 Adalgiso says:@Anmol, one of the main reasons that Windows has such market share is because of aggressive marketing strategies early on in their inception–market strategies that still continue to this day. You can’t go into a retail store and buy a computer without an operating system, and Macs are sold only out of the Apple Retail store or over the Internet. Your mom goes to Best Buy or Circuit City or CompUSA to buy a computer. Hence, she has been forced to buy a copy of Windows.
#26 AJ says:I see no reason why a MAC or Linux desktop can not replace a a windows desktop in the workplace.
#27 Rus says:Each tool has its own specialized area and there are tasks that all platforms can do. There is nothing to stop the average office standerising on either Windows, MAC or Linux is they just want do wordprocessing, browsing the web and email.
#28 james says:Apple users were known to be more productive, and annual desktop support charges for Apple were significnatly less. Apple was always a viable alternative, but piracy of Windows, and then corporate standardization around it, made MS the productivity champion.
Typically, I could be described as a programmer for Windows applications, but use OS X for personal activities. I never had any problems producing work for business school, or sharing my work with classmates, because I had an Apple.
Now, my work on Apple is even more productive, since I perform my daily Windows programming on my 24″ iMac with 2GB RAM, and I haven’t even installed Windows. The screen is large enough that I can run my Windows computer as a remote desktop session on one of multiple desktops (DesktopManager). Once I spend the $800 to purchase Windows and Office Professional, I wouldn’t even need the other machine.
#29 glenn says:So far I’ve seen the argument that Macs are prettier (OK, they are), and that Unix is a reliable OS (it is). But if you’re trying to get an IT job, *most* of the places you go are running on Windows. That’s because Windows has a combination of more developed business software than Mac and greater ease of use than Unix. Oh, plus it’s what your CEO probably uses at home on the Dell the IT staff at work ordered him.
The word you’re looking for is ‘entrenched’.
#30 Brad says:“Of the top 100 companies, only 11 use microsoft products, and thats only as dumb workstations.”
Out of curiosity where does that stat come from? It seems completely erroneous to me.
“If I was a PC business user, I’d go to Ubuntu, and never look back.”
You wouldn’t rather pick a distro’ backed by a support contract?
“Our business doesn’t need a staff IT person…”
I would speculate that that is because the size of your business does not warrant it, not because OS X inherently doesn’t need supporting. A small businesss with a few employees could just as effectively use XP if they were sensible in it’s use.
Has anyone actually sought clarification from Scot Finnie regarding that comment?
“But I’m committed to giving the Mac a fair chance.”
From that and actually reading the entire article (something I would bet most of you haven’t) I get the impression that Scot is reporting a very positive Mac experience. Reading that article objectively and taking that comment in context he’s addressing that preconception that Macs aren’t used in ‘real business’ because they’re unsuitable.
Sorry guys, but I call yellow journalism on this.
The Mac could use more coverage like Finnie’s and less fanboy fanaticism.
#31 noisymime says:ok ok, I love Macs as much as the next guy, but all these fanboys are driving me nuts!
I know I’ll get flamed for this, but there are some things that simply cannot be done under OSX! I’m not disputing for a second that its a better operating system for both desktop and backend systems, but the simple fact of the matter is that if the software doesn’t run on it, its of no use to me. I’m talking about software such as Notes, SAP and practically any custom written standalone app. Yes the next version of Notes will have a native OSX client (w00t!) but its not here yet and contrary to the comment above, this type of software isn’t going to die out anytime soon.
Vendor lock-in is the sole reason Windows maintains the business market. It doesn’t matter that OSX is more secure, has a better GUI and a better API, too many business are locked into too much software.
The solution? Why don’t Apple create an API that is compatible with the Windows one so that Win32 apps can run natively under OSX? The really great thing about Apple is that they could do it better. I mean can you imagine how p*ssed M$ would be if Win32 apps not only ran under OSX but looked and ran better?
Yes OSX is great for some business applications, however as long as most medium to large organisations are locked in with proprietry apps, it will remain second fiddle to Windows.
#32 AJ says:@noisymime
I am a Windows admin and I use Linux on my desktop, what ever I can not run on linux I use the Windows Terminal Server for. But that is mainly just for email (which i can get running in linux using wine anyway (lotus notes)).
#33 Rick says:I’m SOOOOOO bummed that I don’t have a “real job”- video production is so over-rated as a way to make a living.
#34 Rick says:LOL!
#35 Honza says:@noisymime
LN for Mac is already here. I have it installed on my Mac. It’s been available to IBMers for months…
Also, SAP isnt a desktop app, its a server app, and it runs on most stable server platforms. You are confusing yourself with the SAPGUI which is a JAVA front end client.
#36 drwho says:so true, the most mac users I know of have pretty poor paying and lacking jobs, one slaves at a coffee shop, another works as a hospital where PCs aren’t even used
macs truly are for the not so ‘worker’ people
#37 drwho says:“# #26 AJ
I see no reason why a MAC or Linux desktop can not replace a a windows desktop in the workplace.”
Try copying and pasting a table from a web page into Excel.
I see no reason to go to mac in the real world.
#38 Eric Willis says:I use both. When I use my Mac, I instantly turn into a fake person. When I transition back to my Windows laptop, I regain a spot in reality. It’s tough, like time travel, but you get used to it.
#39 Unknown says:Brian you can go fuck yourself. MAC OS X CAN RUN WINDOWS NATIVELY. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE WORD NATIVELY MEANS. So you can take your “but because it has 15 years worth of third party business applications written for it. I’m talking about stuff like collaborative suites, CRM software like SAP, PeopleSoft and JD Edwards, etc.” and run it on a SUPERIOR OS. SO shove your opinions up your ass you level headed prick.
#40 Ryan Sands says:I was thinking of buying one of those “PC” machines. But I would like to get some feedback on what kind of programs I should buy with it. Well i know with my mac i got photoshop for my pictures, final cut pro for my movies, dreamweaver for makin web pages, safari and firefox for browsing the web, itunes for my music…what programs would you guys suggest for my pc? Maybe an anti-virus software…or pop up blocker software?….hmmm well im gonna need to get defragging software..maybe an external drive to back up my data before the hard drive fails…what else is there???…oh i forgot Im probably gonna need…”hijack this” and “Spybot” so i can surf the web. Yea im gonna need the whole microsoft office package if im gonna wanna write a paper or send an email…thats a couple hundred bucks more…hmm i think i might be done. Oh wait I forgot to get worthless tech support from bestbuy because im a freakin retard and cant fix my own computer. God what would i do without tech support haha. Ok im off to a rant but you get my point haha.
#41 Yikes says:His comments don’t deserve a response. Stereotyping is weak and totally unsophisticated for someone who makes a living writing.
#42 Teacher says:I guess teaching isn’t a “real job.” Perhaps people should check the education front and see how Macs compare to Microsoft.
#43 Robert Fernando says:I use both but prefer the Mac, mainly for the three “S’s” that every IT guy appreciates; speed, security and (yes) simplicity. Cheap PC’s have their value like a cheap car can shuttle you around. Most folks will prefer a full-featured car with myriad standard features we considered luxury options only a few years back. This is the best comparison I can think of… The Mac is like your favorite (Luxury/Sports/SUV car) while the PC is fine for errands, hauling junk, picking up hitch-hikers & stray dogs and the like.
The Mac just works. It’s solid, very safe and super secure. I use a PC when I have to and there are a few things that work very well on a PC (and sometimes only on Windows) but the Mac is used for everything else. When the network goes down (like it did last week @ my financial firm) the Macs worked like nothing was wrong but all the PC’s were eventually hit with a Worm that Symantec & McCafe knew nothing about till the next day. Lesson from an IT perspective: Have at least a few Macs around (think of them as being HARD POINTS on your network as they are pretty much INVULNERABLE to attack) if you expect to do any work. Have a main Windows file server go to 90% utilization (somebody left DoubleTake or some other process running) and watch the calls come in from all the Windows users; THEIR PC’s ARE FREEZING UP, the whole department is down. Except for the Macs; they don’t hang when the servers hang.
If you are a gamer or work in an environment which is 100% Windows *and are a newbie* you should probably stick with a PC to do the ‘real work’ there. The Mac won’t automatically hook up with everything in your office in precisely the same way as your PC will; they are different after all - and this will be annoying for a newbie who only works with PC using people.
However, if you are moderately advanced computer user (or a newbie who doesn’t have to connect to a bunch of Windows only networks) you should seriously consider a Mac.
If you want to run both Windows and Mac OS the Mac is the ultimate platform for this kind of flexibility (BootCamp & Parallels). Personally I would keep a cheap PC around if I have to and keep the Mac 100% Mac instead of 50/50 or even 90/10 Mac/Windows.
#44 Brad says:If we’re talking about using a Mac in a business environment then the virus issue is a moot point.
Ryan, how did you get Potatoshop free? Bundle deal?
#45 Shig says:What a twat, ‘Real people with real jobs’!? I think what he means is that people like lawyers, estate-agents, bankers and other such subscribers to the relentlessly boring fields of work don’t use Macs… only clever people who realised at an early age that you can get PAID for doing things you enjoy.
#46 AJ says:@drwho
#37 drwho
“# #26 AJ
I see no reason why a MAC or Linux desktop can not replace a a windows desktop in the workplace.”
Try copying and pasting a table from a web page into Excel.
I see no reason to go to mac in the real world
Your point??
#47 The op-- says:I can’t believe this guy. maybe he should take a good look around him. PC is used in low-income jobs for instance, a bank teller. Anybody who has a job with anything to do with graphics runs on a mac. The entire movie production biz depends on mac.
In conclusion, even though the world is 95% pc, we can replace each one of them with a mac. The same cannot be said for the macs running hollywood.
Long Live The Mac!!!!
–the op
#48 aron says:I must add my voice to the deafening chorus of those using Macs for work. I guess if a real job entails connecting to a legacy mail system over a proprietary VPN and updating your Mas 90 system… the Mac probably blows.
Luckily my fake job requires me to write software for multiple platforms in 4 computer languages, while project managing a team that is spread all over the world. I am positive that Windows could handle this task as well, however I depend on my laptop to work.
If you need your machine to work, every time, all the time, when you are far from home… well no computer really does that… but the Mac is a hell of a lot closer than anything running Windows. Now a Toughbook running FreeBSD would be great if it ran all of the spiffy apps that MacOS does
#49 Tod Glenn says:I’ve been an IT professional for 13 years, used my mac most of the time. For serious high end work, it’s not windows, it’s solaris. As another poster noted, in the major fortune 500 companies the PC is just for reading email, writing reports and the like. Here the PC has no advamntage over the mac, or linux for that matter. All the major apps are running on servers with Unix variants.
As for utility, right now I am running Mac OS X, Windows XP and Ubuntu all on my mac. With paralles running in coherence mode, I can open mac and widows app side by side and even copy and paste between them. And I have all the traditional unix tool available too.
Sorry, a windows box just doesn’t even come close to that capabilty.
#50 Duke says:I’ve been a mac user since 85 and I never had a job using it for income. Everyone always says to me how computer smart I am and ask me how come I don’t do something with computers? I guess now I can tell them that, mac users aren’t real people with real jobs. Thanks for the knowledge window world.
#51 Screaming Lord Byron says:I imagine this guy snapping one day and going postal.
A new civil war based on which OS is superior.
Of course the Linux faction will have the advantage,Everyone knows this.
#52 Gavin says:Brian is obviously ignoring the growing number of people buying macs with windows installed both for gaming and business needs. Too bad surfing the web isn’t recommended in PC mode since your still uber vulnerable online……
Can’t wait until the iPhone completely takes over. Same thing as when the iPod came out - it’s 5 times better than anything else available.
Just another notch in apples brilliant belt.
#53 In Response to #2 says:I work for a very real multi-billion dollar company that is run entirely on macs.
#2 thinks that software like “CRM software like SAP, PeopleSoft” is what gives a PC the edge!?
My company, which is run 100% on macs, uses both of those softwares; X-serves and all.
My point: Agree or disagree, but at least craft a fact-based argument. This article is bunk and naive.
#54 wes Harden says:anyone who says “oh shut up apple fanboys you know pcs are better suited for business” are honestly idiotic. this guy was probobly using bootcamp to run windows for this test.
plus the macintosh is plenty capable as a business computer. it has lots of applications that have been ported from the PC world.
and excuse me but being a f**king “Windows Expert” is a WAY LESS REAL JOB than say a Recording Artist or Movie Editor or Graphic Designer.
#55 Guy says:Sorry to interrupt the anger display here, but has any of you people even bothered to read what the guy actually said?
Here is the quote: “My progress on my trial run with a Mac will be reported in future issues of this newsletter. And I expect to wrap up with a final assessment of whether the Mac is a viable alternative for real people with real jobs. You can also expect a similar long-term wrap-up on Windows vista in the months to come.”
He is just saying he will be evaluating the OS to see if it is a viable alternative (to the OSs he knows) for real people with real jobs (like himself). He is planning a similar write up on Vista as well.
Relax. Visit MacUpdate or something.
#56 lucas says:Jeez! I’ve got to say it ’s really been rough these last few months since my conversion from PC to Mac. Now that I’m not worrying abet viruses, system crashes, and compatibility issues I don’t know what to do with my time! I guess I’ll have to get a real job with all the time I’m saving not having to fix Windows crisis after Windows crisis.
#57 Alan Fitzsimmons says:As a convert to Macs 2 years ago, I’d say he was being correctly cautious. Before hand I used linux systems at work, and had a PC at home. I did a *lot* of research before moving my work to a mac, and for several months afterwards kept a linux box running on my desk next to my powerbook.
“Real people with real jobs” cannot afford to lose the odd day or more because they suddenly find a piece of software they used to rely on is now unuseable, and they have to locate and learn a new app to do the same job.
Saying this, since I switched two years ago the number of people using macs in my research group has increased from 2 (myself and our systems manager) to at least 12 (out of roughly 32), with the number increasing all the time. Let him find out how much more secure and user-friendly a mac system is, and I’m sure he’ll accurately report the experience.
#58 David M says:I can happily report that I’m very functional using the Mac in my real job, doing business stuff.
I use the following:
- Lotus Notes. I hate it, but it works as of a recent beta.
- Microsoft Office.
- Eclipse as my development environment. Developing Java back end applications.
- Apache Tomcat app server. Written in Java, works fine.
- Various Linux applications including Pegasus a CIM server.
- Audium as a IM client.
- Parallels is indispensable to be able to run various applications which refuse to run properly on a Mac. Its also been a lifesaver for testing my apps on various Windows and Linux flavors.
So… it works for me.
I am very happy with the performance of Mac OS X. I know that its disk caching is far superior to Windows, especially with 2 gig of memory. A variety of causes make my Macbook run faster than comparable Windows machines. Reasons include the better disk caching and lack of a need to run parasitic antivirus, anti-spyware programs like Symantec. Tomcat loads 4x faster for me than on a comparable Windows box, ie 7sec vs. 27sec.
I also experience improved stability. Haven’t rebooted the Macbook in weeks, whereas the Windows box has issues making me reboot once every couple of days.
#59 John says:if you want video editing use mac
if you want gaming use a pc
if you want networking use linux
all have real people with real jobs with real income
#60 Andrew says:Short and sweat:
Macs are more designed for ‘Video and Image design’. The macs major points are there. Its stability is quite good. And
it looks a lot better.
Windows are designed for more ‘Newbie(just getting into computers) and gaming(as seen some games do not run on macs)’ needs. Lets face it, a windows PC is much easier to handle then a mac. Thats one of the reasons its so widely used. Not many people like the ‘dock menu’ or the shinny feeling to the mac.
#61 Vermifax says:I understand why chart-topping music production wouldn’t be considered a “real job”.
I’ll take a “real career” over a “real job” anyday.
I’m a Mac user of 21 years and counting. I love having a real career.
I happily removed my Vista RC2 from my Intel iMac. It was a waste of space. Vista took away from my “real career”.
Call me a fanboy or whatever but, at least I’m not delusional about my consumer choices. I’ll stick with the innovators at Cupertino.
#62 Brian says:Jay? WTF is wrong with only using a .htm extension. I personally prefer people stick w/ the old 8.3 naming convention. I am a network admin, and it just makes life easier. Let me guess, you are one of the people who thinks spaces in a file name are a good thing.
#63 Charley says:I look forward to a real review from a real writer.
#64 Whitney says:“The frequency of the Notes crashes diminished, but any crashing isn’t acceptable”
This from a Windows user??? I use Windows at work, and at least once a week Explorer/IE (since they are the same process, for God only knows what reason) crashes on me.
According to Microsoft, rebooting is part of your normal workflow.
#65 Rodney King says:Holy crap. And you Mac guys wonder why some people think Mac users are arrogant assholes! You’ve done nothing but bash the guy and down talk windows, without even reading his article. Read it first, and then judge! The funny thing is, you are all complaining about him not giving the Mac a chance before he bashes it, yet you have all decided to bash him without giving him a chance.
Listen, I grew up with Apple. My first computer was a mac, I learned to program on Apple IIe and IIgs’, I started my “real job” programming PHP and administering Linux/UNIX. That being said, I am now mostly a PC guy. I play games a lot, I program Windows software, and I have very little need for video editing or image creation software. I still think Macs are cool. If I had a real reason to use one, I would totally buy one, but I can’t justify the expense for something that is a novelty, FOR ME. I understand there are millions of people using Macs and they can do anything, but for many people they just aren’t viable. There is no need to get hostile. Windows people don’t hate Mac people, so Mac people don’t need to hate Windows people.
In short, can’t we all just get along!
#66 Matt says:I’m a recent convert. I use a Macbook for both personal use and bootcamp to windows for work (I develop applications written in C# for microsoft windows).
The issue I have with Apple really has nothing to do with their hardware or the OS. It’s the fact that now I get stereotyped as someone who uses a Mac, and that I am hostile to PCs. This is a stereotype that is perpetuated by those labelled as “fanboys”.
What convinced me that I made a good choice was the Macbook, and this is what needs to be the case here for Mr. Finnie. He’s come to the table with his own preconceived notions of what an Apple is good for. Hopefully, this few month experience will change these notions, and they won’t get clouded by people posting on sites like this one blasting him.
Almost makes me ashamed to be a switcher.
#67 Jeff says:If you’re using Lotus Notes, you have no ground to stand on. What a POS! Try a real messaging solution.
#68 David says:I’m a PC user because of video games. I want to create them on my free time and I’m still a student learning the ins and outs of programming languages. So I can use IDE software engines that allow me to create the games for the PC so when I put them on forum sites the majority of computers out there can run them. Now I’m not saying PC is better then Mac or Mac is better then PC, but they both have their advantages. I also prefer a pc/linux box so I can personally customize the hardware to how I like it and upgrade it later without having to buy a completely new system. And the only reason Macs are really secure is because no one writes viruses for them.
#69 Eric says:I work all day and night on my MacBook Pro. I am a programmer and consider it the best of both worlds (linux and windows). How I ever worked on Windows baffles me
#70 Flib says:Nice reaction sequence.
1. Article makes indirect swipe at mac users re: real jobs in the process of appreciating macs.
2. Mac site takes notice, mild offense.
3. Site commenters take more offense.
4. Thread devolves into “Windows admins don’t have real jobs”.
Thanks for the enlightening discourse. Can we just consolidate the comments page to “I have a real job” and “I know you are but what am I?”
#71 madrox says:For all the bitching and moaning about Windows, especially XP..
If a MS based network (2k, 2003) is setup properly by knowledgeable techs there is no downtime. If PC’s (and servers, to include email) are setup properly and protected right, there are no virus infections or OS related problems. The only PC problems I’ve ever had since XP was released were either caused by end users (usually your tech illiterate ones) or hardware failures. I have yet to see a single OS related problem that wasn’t caused by one of those 2 things.
Another IT industry problem I’ve seen over the years are “paper MCSEs” out there that don’t know a thing about anything MS but what they can barely remember after their boot camps, but are hired anyhow to setup pc’s and networks only to do a half ass job and move on. Leaving it to someone else to clean up, if ever.
PC’s have their uses and Macs have theirs. I’m sure they will cross lines in the future to do a little more of each others things.. but until Dell and Apple join forces along with MS, you’ll never get rid of either of them.
#72 Blake says:There’s no way I’d ever buy one of those fake Apple computers. They cost too much and Linux is stable enough for me. I’m not down with all the proprietary crap that Apple pulls. They’re worse than those jerks at Sony. I’m buying a Wii.
#73 wes says:all i have to say, is i use a mac 100% of the time.. whether its business or personal use.. and i am tired of hearing crap about how windows computers are so much more better for business.
well after all the viruses, glitches and crashes.. you tell me how much work you really get done
#74 matthew says:The more of these high-profile-or would be’s)-PC users decide to try Macs the more the hate will be spread between the factions.
As for me, I find it amusing that the prevailing view among Switchers is that Apple finally has something worth their attention. Those of us that have been around a while know real work gets done on BOTH platforms.
#75 Devin says:To JulesLT:
I’m an MCSE/MCSA:m - I prefer macs personally even for business needs. Nothing I can do on a Windows box I cant do within OSX. I have terminal server access to 95% of my clients as is. The other 5% I might fire up a VM for whatever reason.
I might go so far to say I can do more with osx than windows. Allowing me access to osx, *nix and windows apps far out weighs the ability to run windows alone.
#76 ludwig says:I’m talking about stuff like collaborative suites, CRM software like SAP, PeopleSoft and JD Edwards, etc
Brian,
When I worked at APPLE (which happens to be a predominately Mac OS environment) I had a real job with a macintosh, and we used SAP and PeopleSoft every day.
#77 John W says:Well regardless of reality the way Macs have been marketed hasn’t been towards business users at all. The Mac vs. PC commercials always imply that the PC is better for work (spreadsheets, C++ GUI programming book) while the Mac is better for fun (photo editing, movies, etc). It’s really their own marketing biting them in the ass when people call them unprofessional or unrealistic in a corporate environment. Who can blame someone for saying that Macs aren’t as good at spreadsheets when Apple’s own marketing campaigns say that?
Apple apparently decided that they didn’t need the business user market so just gave up on it for the college kid/home user market.
#78 MF Thrilla says:Yeah…so you’re clown shoes for writing that article. You lose for the rest of the year.
#79 Theothercommentor says:Most networks I’ve worked with since XP and 2003 are stable as can be. To the person that mentioned the “paper MCSEs” - thank you. You’re exactly right.
In addition to that, it seems almost every 16 year old kid that knows how to setup a Linksys router goes into business as a PC/Network consultant these days and “professionally installs” a 2003 server, and there’s your reliability problems right there.
The “paper MCSEs” are the worst though….at least the 16 year old kids TRY to do a good job.
#80 Theothercommentor says:Oh another thing - people that are talented enough with Linux to install as the network core, at least until very recently, have been really really weird people in general. My apoligies to any socially capable Linux folks out there. The only people that ever seem to know much about the macs have been the users themselves. Yes, I know some of you admins out there know what you’re doing, but that’s not the case in your typical office setting.
Microsoft just made things really really easy out of the box. So even if you do a bad job installing, it’s easy to cover your tracks and make it look like you knew what you were doing. With Linux and Apple, again until very recently, you had to absolutely know your stuff ahead of time of your installation would never get off the ground. I believe that is why MS is #1. Why did so many people buy Chevettes, because they were the highest quality cars out there? Certainly not. In most cases, they did the job just fine and were easy to acquire.
#81 John C. Randolph says:” Windows machines are far better suited for business needs. ”
Umm… I don’t know about you dude, but my business needs can’t tolerate an unreliable and unsecurable machine.
-jcr
#82 bogus says:In 20 years since graduating, Scott has held 10 real jobs (thanks wayback machine!), the guy is obviously an expert, quit yer snivelling.
Editor, TechWeb.com, CMP Media 1997-Present
Managing Editor, Winmag.com, CMP Media, 1999-2001
Freelance Writer 1996–97
Executive Editor, ZDNet, Ziff-Davis 1994–96
Features Editor, FamilyPC, Ziff-Davis/Disney 1994
Reviews Editor, PC Computing (later Smart Business), Ziff-Davis 1990–94
Freelance Writer 1989–90
Editor, Catalog Age Magazine, Cowles New Media 1986–89
Reviews Editor, jr, and CoCo Magazines, IDG 1984–86
Freelance Film/Video Production Assistant 1983–84
#83 Troy says:I’m a real person, at a real job, using a Mac. What an idiot.
#84 rusty says:@Brian
You are 100% correct - I couldn’t have put it any better.
#85 decoherence says:notes and eudora? and this is representative of “real people with real jobs”?? how many years ago was this?
#86 Bill says:All these people need to get a life. Go outside, breath some fresh air, etc.
#87 KenLenny says:I think we can all agree that PCs only have such a large market share because Microsoft is so much better at marketing than Apple. And that Macs are so powerful because those bread and butter apps on a PC just don’t require as much power as on OS X. I guess it’s just too easy to hate on Apple, come on - give them a break! They’re a ballsy company. They take quite a risk making their products twice as expensive as their competitors, we should honor that!
#88 John C. Randolph says:Ken,
Ever see one of those dinosaur ads? How about the stock-photo switcher stories? How about this brilliant move from last week or so:
http://www.stevesremoteclicker.com/2006/11/22/trade-your-ipod-for-a-zune/
Microsoft is absolutely LOUSY at marketing.
What got them where they are is two things: catching IBM’s fumble during the PS/2 debacle, and a number of illegal acts since that time. You might have heard something about that, it made all the papers.
-jcr
#89 missourideerhunter says:I am an IT guy for a large printing and graphics firm (over 1 million square feet under roof)…..I have a dual G5 on my desk running Tiger and I have a dual processor Dell running XP……we have hundreds of Macs in the place (mostly G5 and late G4’s) and 16 printing presses to keep running…..we have maybe 35 windows machines….we have firewalls…..latest and greatest anti-virus software…..our own windows update server that replicates with the MS update server hourly…..and we still spend more time maintaining the few windows machines than we do on all the hundreds of Macs combined. The MS Windows update site is so prone to attack that the “word on the street” is that the actual boxes that store the updates are running on Linux. We use Lotus Notes on the Mac (v. 6.5.5) because it is the corporate standard and it usually runs pretty well….it’s ugly but it functions. The latest battle we have had is with a virus that exploits the ftp protocol and tries to replicate via port 21….and it affects Windows NT! Which MS will not write any patches for…..they will, but they wanted $76,000.00 to fix it for our corporation…..we still have many production systems that will only run on NT….and so many NT boxes throughout the corporation that upgrading them all would be cost prohibitive. All of that said……I’ll take a Mac anytime…..and I hope they continue to have a small percentage of the market….makes them less likely to become a virus magnet…….
#90 NtroP says:Wow! I’ve been in the IT field for over 20 years. I guess what makes me different is that I work daily with a variety of OS’s including Unix, Linux, OS X and Windows. Maybe it’s only a “real job” if all you know is Windows? I use a Mac to manage all my systems because it’s the only one with built-in ssh, perl, java, can run ARD, VNC, Remote Desktop and comes with a set of world-class development tools for free. My second choice would be SuSE or Ubuntu.
I use windows when I want to play games… I guess that makes it the lame toy of the bunch. This “IT expert”, if all he knows is Windows, is just an ignorant, narrowly-trained “helper-monkey” in my book. Anyone can go out and take a two week MCSE bootcamp to get some letters after their name. Frankly, those people never even make it to an interview when I’m in charge. You need to demonstrate that you have a broad understanding of computers and computing, not just a “Walmart Education”
#91 Chipnsocal says:I worked on an SAP implementation where some 2000 Mac users were able to utilize the entire system. Firefox works like a charm.
Most current SAP implementations are using some variety of a web portal. Same with Siebel/CRM, Oracle, etc. These applications are typically installed on Unix-server based systems. Very few large enterprises are running these apps on SQL/Windows/IIS based systems.
The bigger issue isn’t a Mac’s capability in the workplace. It is the IT/staff’s ability to maintain them.
#92 jerome_horwtiz says:Agreed - continued fanaticism by Mac fanboys does nothing to change anyone’s mind. All you are is cheering for each other.
I manage a Mac G5 Server, XRaid, 2 classrooms of Macs and 5 classrooms of PCs. Frankly, my efforts are literally about 50% split between the two, even though I have about 70% PCs.
So I don’t know what to tell you people, other than neither platform is perfect (in fact in the last year more hardware problems have occured on our less # of Macs than PCs). The other noteworthy thing is the software we run, which is graphic arts oriented are basically mirrored in Mac and PC labs, and the PCs seem to have less problems running them.
And “lickable Aqua interface”? OMG it’s a GUI - get over it :giant eye roll:
#93 subcorpus says:i’m a not so recent a convert …
and i love my mac …
#94 computer tech says:hey you know what I make my living working on windows pcs and if macs where used in the world as much as windows pcs I would be ou of a job because nothing ever goes worng with a mac I have a g4 at home that runs better then my windows pc OMG WHAT WILL I DO IF THAT HAPPENS OOOOO NO!lol
#95 hb says:lol. i guess im fake!
#96 Don says:Scot is a pretty good guy, and this little blurb is being taken way out of context. The man is running an experiment that breaks down the walls of the traditional corporate market that insists Windows is the ONLY business OS. The comment is meant to reflect that, not to insult Mac users. Give the guy a break, he’s a long time Windows devotee who is making a Mac his main system and reporting on his experiences. I think it was a pretty good way to put it.
#97 Nehemias says:I have been using windows-based computers since 1994, BUT, I have a mac computer now, I bought it because I’ve always loved mac looking, and because I can do windows also, but with time, I’ve learned to do everything on mac Os, that’s why I say that macs are far more better than PC, mac run windows even faster than other pc’s, so, If I say it, me, that I am a windows guy, prefering mac, just because before i did not had the change to test it, and it is great in every single way, the obly thing is gamimg, bt that is changing also.
#98 AVP says:People,people.Lets not forget that whatever box/computer/laptop we use -*nix,windows,mac..what matters at the end of all is that we make some actual money and watch the bank balance grow and lead a fulfilling life…
AVP.
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