The Metadata Screencast: Part Three
A dead drive created a minor slow-down in getting this out, but an extra drive and a quickly restored backup and I’m back in action. (Along these lines, an answer to a question: The tags – Spotlight Comments – do in fact survive backups and such. Everything’s in perfect order post-backup/restore.) So today marks Part 3 of our Metadata Series. This is the screencast that shows the apps I’m using (Default Folder X, Quicksilver with the Tagging Plugin, and TagBag), how to set them up (this is really just Quicksilver), and just how I’m using them for maximum potential.
I’d like to make a note before you watch the screencast:
To coin a phrase I used to hear from my father, “Do as I say, Not as I do.” You’re about to see my dirty laundry – that is, the mess that is my collection of tags. One would probably assume a utopia of perfect tagging principles…While I do follow what I preach, I’ve also been tinkering with this project for over a year. In that time I’ve tried many different approaches (apps, workflows, and so on) that inevitably created a bigger mess than it cleaned-up. But I found that keeping some of this stuff helped me test various workflows more thoroughly, thus, I left it. I just wanted to cover this point before you watched the following and said, “Ummmmm…”
So here goes!
The Metadata Screencast clocks in at about 12 minutes.
Enjoy the show.
A couple things I forgot to mention in the screencast:
- To get the Spotlight Comments entry on Save Dialogs, you’ll go to Default Folder X in the System Preferences, Settings, Open & Save. Be sure to check the box, “Ask for Spotlight Comments in Save dialogs.”
- Also, you can bring many items at once into Quicksilver and tag them all identically. So the workflow you see me perform can help you easily tag tons of files at once – provided they are all getting the same tags.
Questions will be answered in the comments section below.
Chris on February 19th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
I’m sure you’re disappointed that the first comment isn’t about the contents of the screencast (don’t worry, it was ver helpful), but what I’d really like to know about is that desktop background. I’d love to grab that…
Thanks,
Chris
Nick Santilli on February 19th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
Haha, that’s alright. I’m getting used to the comments often being about my setup.
The wallpaper is something I expanded from the smaller graphic that was used as the background in this Adium Message Style, by Dimitry.
It’s sorta like the veer.com wallpaper I’ve had in the past (seen in previous screencasts) but I like the slight change-up in design of this look.
Jono on February 19th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
Thanks, I’m really enjoying your screencasts, & you’ve already got me hooked on tagging. (In fact I couldn’t wait for this screencast so I already went out & looked into how to tag with Quicksilver as well as using Default Folder X).
I’ve tried to use TagBag on 2 different Macs but can’t get it running. (Doesn’t show tags, uses a lot of CPU & end up having to force quit it).
Punakea looks promising so I’m looking forward to new features in that in the future.
Thanks again & keep up the good work.
Peter on February 19th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
Thanks for the screencast – I’ve really enjoyed the whole metadata series.
Is there a way to find all the untagged files in my Documents folder?
Evan on February 19th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Highest praise for Quicksilver and anyone who helps others use it. That means you Nick.
A potential problem that I will soon run into (as my amount of tags increase) will be the Quicksilver Tagging Module’s lack of alphabetization. The tags don’t seem to be listed in any order. Is there any trick to fixing this little oversight?
Another question about your setup. In the video it looks as if your QS bezel has a brushed metal look. Is that accurate or just some video artifact?
Dan on February 19th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
I started using Quicksilver to tag my files but then I found I could still list the tagged files via QS but when I used ‘get-info’ on the files, the comment wasn’t in the spotlight comment box. Any idea as to why? Has this happened to anyone else? I’m also having the same problems with TagBag as Jono – it doesn’t work and I have to force-quit it. This is quite the tragedy, as it seems like just what I’ve been looking for in the past.
Eric Hamilton on February 19th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
Nick. Great webcast. This is precisely the workflow that I’ve been using for the past six months with the QS tag plug-in.
Off-topic: what is the app does the robot represent in your menubar?
Jono on February 19th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
One thing I can’t replicate in the screencast…
I invoke Quicksilver & type ‘tags’ to show the File Tags (Catalog). Then right arrow to show the list of my tags, but when I right click on an actual tag nothing happens. In your screencast it displays all files tagged with that tag name (searches the tag).
I’ve looked at any possible actions I that should possibly be checked & all seems fine. Maybe it’s becuase the catalog isn’t set to to search my whole home folder? (unlimited folders deep)
Andy on February 19th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Fantastic screencast and one that has actually encouraged me to organize beyond just folders, seeing how simple it actually is.
For some reason though, I cannot replicate the behavior in Quicksilver, where the file that you select is embedded when you invoke Quicksilver.
Basically, when I click on the file and then use my Quicksilver hotkey, I get a blank Quicksilver box. Is there a preference that I do not have enabled which is causing this?
Eric on February 19th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
I second the problem that Jono mentioned above. I can see the list of tags in the catalog, but using the right arrow does not show the files with that tag, as it did in your screencast.
Seth on February 19th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Excellent screencast. However, I have another question about your setup… In the screencast, what application is responsible for the terminal icon in the menu bar?
Joshua on February 19th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
I am teetering on the edge of tagging all my files and seeing if I can live without finder or quicksilver/spotlite file lookups. There are however, still a few niggling uncertainties holding me back.
First of all, I’m not certain of the best way to go about tagging all of my existing files. I saw suggestions from the previous post to use a script that would embed the file’s folder name as the tag. But I’m not sure this is the most effective approach. Is there a better way?
Also, I’m uncertain about handling nomenclature. What naming conventions work in a way that is clear, consistent, meaningful, and memorable?
And this leads to another uncertainty. How to manage all those tags? For example, what if I find that a particular tagging approach isn’t working for me (e.g. too many inconsistencies in use). I decide I want to re-tag all the associated files using some new convention. Quicksilver doesn’t quite seem appropriate on a large scale and other applications, such as Punakea, operate too much outside the operating system for my taste.
Perhaps the greatest thing holding me back is the conceptual leap. I can see advantages and disadvantages in folder hierarchies and tags. As mentioned by others, with folders, a file can exist in only one place even though categorically it may fall into many different areas. But then, a folder hierarchy is like a mind map. If I am uncertain of a file’s location, often I can find it by following the folder tree as if it were a line of thought frozen in time. But in that, perhaps it is too rigid. Yet it seems that because tags are so free form and independent, they lack the semantic relationship inherent to the nested structure of a folder hierarchy. Or is that relationship actually not so important and we’ve just been trained to think it is?
I’d be curious to hear thoughts on this, particularly regarding the conceptual shift and whether tagging really does make it easier to find something you know you have, but just can’t remember how to get hold of.
Phil Bowell on February 19th, 2007 at 5:19 pm
VEry interesting and clear screencast. I dabbled in taggins all my files in this way a while ago but didn’t really find it that useable, I’m tempted to give this another shot now though.
Andy: The way I bring the selected file into the first QS pane is by command-G. But it does like there is a setting somewhere to do it automatically.
E.J. on February 19th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
This isn’t done using the regular quicksilver shortcut (cmd+space or whatever you have it set to. It’s actually a trigger in quicksilver to bring whatever you’ve highlighted into quicksilver. Mine is set up as cmd+g. You can set it in the QS preferences in Triggers-Quicksilver-Command Window with selection. Also, make sure in preferences-extras that you have Pull selection from front application instead of Finder ticked.
clsnyder on February 19th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
Is there a way to bulk tag files – eg if you have a project folder about ants in singapore and want to tag everything in it at once with ‘ants’ and ’singapore’ – can this be done via terminal commands or with available software?
Interesting post!
Andy on February 19th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
Thank you Phil and E.J. I did get it to work by bringing up Quicksilver through the regular hotkey and then pressing command-G.
Apparently, you can do it in one step by pressing command-escape, but this only works with certain applications. For example, it works in Finder, but it does not work with Path Finder (which I use for file management).
On a different note, I have another question for Nick and I do not remember this being covered in the screencast. How can you tag with words that have spaces? I am sure you can do that in Default Folder X, because you manually prepend each tag. However, how can you tag this way in Quicksilver? For example, if I wanted for a tag to be “civil procedure”, Quicksilver prepends both of the words with & and makes them into 2 different tags.
Evan on February 19th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
Jono, I had the same problem. And there’s a way to fix it for a time.
Activate QS, type “tag,” hit enter to “show entry in catalog.”
As soon as the pref window comes up, you can close it. Now you should be able to right-arrow into your individual tags. I find I have to do this every time I resart QS. I think it’s just a matter of re-indexing the files.
Good luck.
Hans on February 19th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
Installing the spotlight plugin seems solve the problem with browsing in tags :-)
Daniel H on February 19th, 2007 at 9:53 pm
@clsnyder – If you’ve got Tiger tou can use automator to do that.
Nick Santilli on February 19th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
As it’s already been said – to be able to arrow into the catalog of tags and the underlying files:
try installing the Spotlight plugin, and the extra scripts plugin. I believe both will help in this. (I’ve found that making sure the scripts are marked in the Catalog/Scripts area is a safe bet too)
I’ll be preparing a longer response to the rest of the questions thus far – most likely in a full blog post tomorrow.
Nick Santilli on February 19th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
Up to this point (21 comments) I’ve answered all the questions and it will be available first thing in the morning.
HERE’S THE ANSWER POST
And I’ll keep the post of answers updated as further questions are left here in this thread.
Jono on February 20th, 2007 at 1:28 am
Thanks, I’ve installed the Spotlight & Scripts plugins & I can now right arrow into tags to view the results :)
Joshua
What I’ve opted to do is tag files AND keep them arranged in folders. I have a client’s work folder well arranged & don’t really like the thought of throwing everything in 1 folder. But do like the idea of tagging files so they are easy to quickly bring up in spotlight or a smart folder from Quicksilver or Punakea.
In the client’s work folder at the moment I have 272 clients. Then in each folder there’ll be a ‘project1′ folder, a ‘project2′ folder etc. So (almost) all files in the project1 folder would be tagged ‘&clientname.project1′, ‘&clientname.project2′, ‘&clientname.project3′ etc.
Those files that I know I won’t need to hand quickly all the time I don’t tag & can still find them in the organised folders if ever needed.
Andy
It’s possible to set up a trigger that once you’ve selected the files in Finder you can tag with one step. I set up a tagging trigger ‘Finder Selection, TAB, Add Tags’ & bound it to a hot key (CTRL, Option +T).
clsnyder
This is easy enough with Quicksilver. Select all files in a folder, hit CTRL, Shift+T (or whatever you set up for your trigger) & type singapore ants (Quicksilver will add the prefix so in Spotlight comments it would be ‘&singapore &ants’).
It won’t tag files in subfolders (but in column view it pretty quick to select files in a folder, tag them, move to the next folder, tag them etc.) Or like Daniel H says you could set up an Automator workflow.
M For on February 20th, 2007 at 11:18 am
Hi, Thanks for the great demo on tagging. I haven’t tried it just yet but you’ve convinced me to dive in head long. How about iphoto and itunes, can you tag those files or am I stuck with the photo description and mp3 id info? Is there a way to tag them in batches?
Naga on February 20th, 2007 at 9:16 pm
I’ve just discovered something about TagBag. It’s never worked for me, and apparently no one else, as well.
I figured out why.
It doesn’t like the ‘&’ before the tag, I believe. I have some tags on my computer that I don’t know where they came from. They’re just normal words, and I clicked on one by accident, and it opened a Spotlight search window, with it searching Spotlight comments with that tag.
Just thought you guys would like to know that.
Jono on February 21st, 2007 at 1:41 am
Thanks Naga. That would make sense for me as I use the & as a prefix for my tags.
Dirk on February 21st, 2007 at 2:56 am
Love the screencasts. What I like is that I can downlaod them and then play them big when I am in the train, or waiting for a plane somewhere in QT. This one only plays in the bowswer and I can’t play it when I am not connected.
I hate that. Could you go back to the old days where you could downlaod the QT file?
Thanks
Ben on February 21st, 2007 at 4:38 am
Spent yesterday trying to get Quicksilver to work and gave up.
Tried again to day and realised I’d been missing the “tab” key out!! D’oh!
Thanks for the screencast. Now to the brave New World of tagging. :)
Melvin Mudgett-Price on February 21st, 2007 at 9:15 am
I can confirm Naga’s comments. Tagbag will find files tagged without the ampersand even though it lists tags with ampersands. The problem I’ve always had with tgbag was I can’t resize the window. I need it to be wider. If any of you have tried using Punakea you’ll know why. It adds a whole heap of text befor and after the tags.
Has anyone looked into Spotmeta? It looks like a great app, the problem I have though is it won’t play with QS. I can find the tags with spotlight but not QS.
As always, great screencast, thank you.
http://www.fluffy.co.uk/spotmeta/
Chris Pickett on February 21st, 2007 at 2:12 pm
I’ve been following this from the first screencast, it’s been a great segment so far.
I’ve got a project, called ZODAS, it has around 100 files (give or take), so I’ve tagged all of those as zodas, then some as zodas & module, etc. My problem is that now I get a list of 100+ files when I do a show files matching, is there anyway to specify more than one tag in qs? Or possibly get it to list the other matching tags at the top of the list of files?
Michael Newsom on February 21st, 2007 at 4:09 pm
these articles have really changed the way i use my computer. i’m very close to leaving the finder behind forever.
the one comment i’d like to make is that you should turn off file vault if you plan to add tags with quicksilver. searching by tag works but you’ll have to add tags one at a time in the get info box until you decrypt your home directory.
file vault also seems to shut down a lot of automator actions.
keep the screencasts coming!
seenxu on February 28th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
theappleblog no longer offer quicksilver serie screencast download?
thx
Nick Santilli on February 28th, 2007 at 11:34 pm
I believe Josh changed the download to an embedded viewer. probably from strain on the server, but I’m not sure. I’ll always release them as downloads, unless the bossman has to throttle it back for some reason or another.
Patrick on March 8th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
Great info. One issue that I have is that I want to tag all my invoices by date of invoice i.e. 3/05/07 but I cant use “/” in qs. I can use it in spotlight which enables me to pull up the dated invoice or all the invoice under that date. Should I just use spotlight to bring up the invoices and not use qs?
Patrick on March 8th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Problem solved. Once i started to tag through qs it finds the tag and I select to show all files with this tag. All good. QS rocks.
Patrick on March 9th, 2007 at 11:38 am
Would be awesome to have a plugin for Quickbooks. Id like to access my client information like I can with address book. Id also like to pull up invoices. Anyone know how this can be done?
Gabriel on March 19th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Be careful! If tags resist a hard drive crash and reinstall from backup, as in your example, they will not resist some of the Onyx cleaning!!!
Yesterday, I have had the bad idea to launck Onyx to clean the usual things, cache and all things, but was afraid to see after reboot that all my tags had disappeared!
There is an option you must absolutely not choose in Onyx, it’s the “initialize Spotlight index” option… it will erase all your tags! So, be careful with that!
Gabriel
Tod on April 16th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
Where do we obtain the neat wood-skinned hard drive icon?
Owen on June 10th, 2007 at 11:43 am
Tagbot seems to do a good job of tagging.
Jon Gotow on June 26th, 2007 at 8:07 am
Hey Josh – I know it’s been a long while, but I wanted to let you know that I released a new version of Default Folder X today that’s got auto-completion built in for Spotlight tags. You (or one of the comments) said that’d make things go quicker, and certainly cuts down on my own mistakes when tagging my files :-)
– Jon
Jon Gotow on June 26th, 2007 at 8:08 am
Whoops – I mean Nick…
– Jon
Jono on June 26th, 2007 at 9:07 am
Sounds good.
I noticed when using (the older version) that for some reason Quicksilver & TagBot saved searches wouldn’t always pick up files tagged using Default Folder X. Sometimes it would add a space & I’d have to ‘Get Info’ on the file & remove the space it added before the tag in order for it to play nice with other tagging apps.
Any word on it this has been fixed?
demariii on October 6th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
When I do a search with quicksilver for a file only 3-4 of 20 files show up in quicksilver. When I do the same search in spotlight all 20 documents are found. Why? Is something not set p properly? Take care!
mike on February 7th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
When i click on the test document and then invoke quicksilver, i dont have the same option you show in the screencast that allows me to start typing the name of a tag i would like to use. Any ideas as to what im doing wrong?
JGraybeal on May 5th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Joshua — Those were great questions in #12. I’ve been thinking about them a lot, as we have moved a 1500-item site from Plone (with some tagging and smart folders) to Drupal (with tagging the primary navigation system). I too could not get over the hurdle of requiring navigation ordering.
With the help of some clever implementers on my project, we’ve implemented folder emulation — using tags! If each item is tagged with its path+shortName, then all the paths form a hierarchical set of tags (either break out the path components or keep them in one string, it’s an implementation choice).
So if I want to say “this thing should be in the same conceptual space as these other things” and I am used to having a nice hierarchical set of concept spaces (read: folders), I can still order/organize things in that way, and people can still find them in that way. It makes it obvious that folders are just another tagging system.
But being able to ALSO tag them and put them into various views, using their tags, is really nice so far. (Will release new web site Real Soon Now.) It has taken a lot of time to come up with a satisfactory set of taxonomies, though.
On my Mac, with over 1M files, and maybe 100K emails, I am not about to start tagging them all — I’m happier using sorts and searches, and memory. But I’ll view the movie (as soon as my system lets me), maybe I’ll change my mind.
AlbertoMichieli on September 14th, 2008 at 10:22 am
We use a server where 3 people access files
if I tag file for some project from my notebook, does the tags appear on the other client machine?
I saw the question about mailtag, can they be searched by qs as well?
what about address book contacts, can I tag these too?
What happen if some file has been download to a remote computer via ftp and then uploaded back again? they will keep tags?
Thank you very much
Justin C on March 14th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
Quicksilver "show files matching" is not working for me. I have the file tagging module ticked as installed – and tagging works. I have my prefix set, and under actions five actions are ticked "show files matching", "remove tags","set tags", "set tags", and "add tags". Lastly, under Catalogue ->Modules, I have "File Tags" ticked. But I don’t get that search/finder window come up that you do. Any suggestions? Oh, BTW, I’m using Leopard and QS Beta 54. What I am getting, is a smart finder window with those files edited today.