The Apple Experience
Maybe it is because I am a recent switcher that I notice details long-time Mac owners may take for granted, details that are so minute yet so useful and so quintessentially ‘human’. The level of attention painstakingly paid to the many small details found on every Apple product is a testament to Apple’s design philosophy, and is what sets the experience of using an Apple product a head above its competitors. Here are some thoughts I have about The Apple Experience.
Apple’s One-Two Punch
To take at face value alone Apple’s own statement, that it is first and foremost a software company, is to be merely skimming the surface. The Apple experience, be it with a Mac, iPod or iPhone, has no equal only because of the way Apple marries software seamlessly to the hardware that serves it. In an Apple product, software and hardware are inseparable: the success of that product weighs equally heavy on the shoulders of both its software and hardware components.
Take, for example, the iPod. The two main factors that make the iPod the success story it is are the Wheel (hardware) and the user interface (software). Would the iPod have reigned if it had sported a four-way D-pad instead, as was the norm for devices of that era, with the UI probably taking an entirely different direction as a result? Probably not. Would the Wheel have worked if it served an alternate user interface? Again, probably not. Another software factor that can be considered as equally important is iTunes and its ease of use.
On the Mac side of things, a good example is the keyboard backlight on the MacBook Pro. You may not have noticed this, but when you fire up your MacBook Pro in a dimly-lit environment, the keyboard lights up when OS X boots into the login screen.
Now, this is not some technical feat. But, clearly, in the process of designing the MacBook Pro, Apple designers thought far enough to consider the various scenarios a user might be in and included this nice little engineering touch. Maybe the idea began in the development of OS X. Maybe it was added to OS X at the request of the hardware folks. Regardless, the result is elegant, understated and unobstrusive, the way good design should be. This is what absolute control over both software and hardware gets you. The iPhone is another showcase of this combination.
When You’re Not In Control…
In stark contrast, the Windows-PC software/hardware relationship, where the hardware is often nothing more that a shell for the software, makes it difficult for Microsoft and its partners to achieve the seamlessness and elegance of Apple’s software/hardware implementations.
I suspect life must be difficult for the PC designer who has great ideas to enhance user experience but is hampered simply because the OS was never designed to support those ideas. Sony, Fujitsu and Lenovo are, in my opinion, the three manufacturers who consistently produce remarkable design, whose industrial design I admire as much as that of Apple’s. Yet, the only way they can enhance software/hardware user experience is through the custom applications that serve their respective hardware.
Sony, for example, has a complete suite of custom applications from media management to custom control panels to complement its hardware features. While these applications add value to what a user can get out of the computer, and succeed in adding to what the OS lacks, the fact that these applications have a custom user interface so different to that of Windows is where the irony lies. A few snatches of brilliance ultimately defeated by the very thing they strive to enhance…parts that do not add up to the final sum.
This trend is apparent not only in PCs; HTC, Sony Ericsson, HP, Nokia and Samsung are doing the same with smartphones powered by Windows Mobile, Palm OS or UIQ. But how much can front-end applications mask the shortcomings of an underlying host OS that already has its own user interface? The first manufacturer who has an answer to that question will change the landscape forever.
Some manufacturers — Google, HP, Gigabyte and ASUS, to name a few — are thinking exactly that: Google already has an alternative smartphone OS in place, HP is toying with the idea of developing its own Linux-based OS, and ASUS is developing its own front-end to Windows Mobile, close on the heels of HTC and Samsung, both of whom have touchscreen front-ends for their Windows Mobile smartphones.
The Apple Way
Short of reading the minds of the powers-that-be at the helms of Apple, and not mentioning how Mac clones in the ’90s were eating away at Apple’s own sales, I suspect the lack of unity mentioned above is, to some extent, why Steve Jobs will never license OS X to other manufacturers. Sure, it would increase marketshare and sales. But Apple products were never meant to be mere commodity items, at least not under Job’s stewardship.
The Apple experience is a combination of form, function and intangible user emotional responses earned from its masterful blend of software and hardware (though not necessarily in that order; Apple does get naughty once in a while). This positive user experience further leads to strong emotional branding. The risk of disparities arising from the separation of software and hardware, with user experience as the casualty, is a risk neither he nor any one else at Apple will take, now and in the foreseeable future.
robbydm on November 3rd, 2008 at 9:55 am
Nice summary, I’m a recent switcher and i couldn’t be happier!
I’m still wondering how I’ve managed to live without my macbook pro
Both thumbs up !
Miguel on November 3rd, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Great article. Being also a recent swithcer, I couldn’t agree more with your point of view. At the end of the day all we want is to take some benefict from our products (computers, mp3 players, etc…) and not to look at their massive specification and think “why can’t I do it?”…
Adam on November 4th, 2008 at 7:33 am
I have been using Macs for 24 years (and I use Windows when I need to for the last 8). This is exactly why I stay. I was at the Apple Store last Friday and a guy asked to pick my brain. It took all of 2 minutes before he was proclaiming that “This is great! They do the whole thing and it’s so seamless”!
his comments continued in that vein, and he’s going back (been back maybe?) for a personal shopping appointment to get his Mac.
Cheers!
Honza on November 4th, 2008 at 8:14 am
As a recent switcher myself (3 years is recent right?) I couldn’t be happier with OSX and Macs – I’ll never go back to windows if Apple/MS keep their respective philosophies, but really my iPhone is a slow, crippled, pain in the ass. It’s just so near but so far at the same time.
Will on November 4th, 2008 at 8:42 am
nice writeup. as a recent switcher myself, i can only agree with your argument. hopefully apple stays the way it is and not turn into a monopolising behemoth like microsoft.
also, a warm welcome to you – it’s nice being able to read a fellow singaporean’s writing =)
cheers mate.
Jonathan Hollin on November 4th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
I couldn’t agree more. The whole Apple experience (software and hardware) is unique and is its own reward.
I switched from Windows to OS X (on my beloved Power Mac G5) a few years ago and I have never looked back. There is nothing I miss from using Windows but, whenever I end up on a Windows PC, I immediately begin to miss some of the subtle touches that make OS X so complete.
And, the experience just keeps on getting better. My transition from Tiger to Leopard was painless and brought with it a whole host of great new features (I’d be lost without Spaces, Quicklook and stacks). Compare this with my last Windows upgrade (from 2000 Pro to XP) which ended up with my doing a complete reformat and reinstall because the upgrade f&@#ed things up so badly for me – then I couldn’t get my scanner to work, and I needed to add more RAM and a new graphics card too! How large Windows-based IT departments cope with OS upgrades is beyond me – they’re just so painful under that bloated and cruft-ridden OS.
Like your other respondents, I hope that Apple maintains its “zen” for many years to come. I’m a fanboy and proud of it. :-)
Joe on November 4th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Macs are Jaguars to the Window-based Fords. The later may claim a larger market share, but the premium we pay for the former is oh so worth it.
Emre Y. on November 6th, 2008 at 6:11 am
Calling a computer, or music player “experience” is just what apple wanted to achieve. Whats nobody mentioned is the fact that, deep inside, all you mac users feel “distinguished” and “more professional” etc etc just because you own a particular brand: Apple/Mac. This is really pathetic.
Emre Y. on November 6th, 2008 at 6:16 am
The brand and “emotional connection : which simply means the urge to buy something that a few people could afford) apple created makes you all blind even though there are things that are wrong with macs. They do crash, they are expensive to maintain, upgrade etc etc and their performance/price ratio is not great at all. However because you are all catched the mac-flu you are blinded and whatever the rest of the world would tell you you will stick to apple until one day will come and you will realise how much money you spent on something that was completely and utterly unnecessary and it only made apple and mr jobs happy and you: well we will see..
Joseph Gelis on November 6th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Emre Y. You sound frustrated just like Microsoft in their pathetic response to Apple’s ultra-successful “I’m a Mac/I’m a PC” commercials. Apple “acts” smartly and cleverly in promoting their product, and then Microsoft “reacts” desperately and pathetically in trying to stop the bleeding as droves make the switch. I have been using Macs for 20+ years and have never experienced any of the problems you have mentioned in your post. During this 2 decade run I would categorize my relationship with my Macs as pleasurable compared with the laborious experience endured while forced to use Windows-based machines at work. Emre Y., I know you are in deep with the gang from Redmond, but open your mind and free yourself from their clutches and at least try a Mac. You will realize how good life really can be.
Emre Y. on November 6th, 2008 at 9:22 am
Unfortunately at studios that I work sometimes there are macs so I have to use them and they do crash for no reason from time to time. I am not saying it happens every day but it definitely happens as often as windows machines. I don’t find any difference between windows and osx in terms of productivity. 20+ years in the mac-land…I will NEVER, EVER give a dime to Steve Jobs from my own hard earned money just for design, marketing and for the fact that they turn heads in Starbucks..
Emre Y. on November 6th, 2008 at 9:27 am
The only problem that windows based machines have are the inexperienced users. If you don’t know what you are doing with windows ITS IS EASY to ^£££$%£ it UP. I must admit it. OSX is designed for “technology dummies”, you plug it and it works type of thing, and thats good AND bad, good because well, its easier, bad because it makes it less flexible, less customizable and less open-source for developers. I have been using windows since version 3.1 and I am challanging ANYBODY ON EARTH, if a windows machine that I maintain crashes or locks up, or doesn’t behave as I want it to be I will just shoot myself. All over the world, in biggest movie studios, music studios, banks etc etc there are windows based machines and they are being maintained by proffesional people and they DO WORK.
Joseph Gelis on November 6th, 2008 at 9:31 am
Emre Y., A diverse society is what makes the world go around. You love PCs, I love Macs. To each his own. And that is cool. Enjoyed chatting with you. Take Care.
P.S. I hear Jobs is a piece of work, but you can’t argue with the results that have been produced under his watch.
Emre Y. on November 6th, 2008 at 9:32 am
Bottomline..I want freedom of choice, freedom of hardware, freedom of software and freedom of being able to use something other than itunes, or ithis and ithat..not just a few choices that apple would give me. Not only they don’t let you create your own setup, they don’t even give you necessary and basic technologies like a firewire on the new macbooks so that you have to go up the ladder and buy a much more expensive macbook pro. Just tell me which decent laptop on earth of size 12″ or more at the moment doesn’t have a firewire port?..What could be the rationale behind it anything other than hunger for more money?
Emre Y. on November 6th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Joseph, nothing personal towards you, please don’t get me wrong..I just have strong feelings towards apple. I am agains being a fan of any operating system or any brand in general. If I sounded like I endorse or love pc’s its not what I meant. I am not a particular fan of Bill Gates either. He is just another form of Jobs.. :) Enjoyed hearing someone from the “dark side” of computers as well :) take care
Emre Y. on November 6th, 2008 at 9:35 am
I do appreciate Job’s success yes..hats off (no sarcasm)
Ritik on November 15th, 2008 at 9:35 am
Honestly, Mac’s are terrible. The world runs on PC’s and Mac’s are basically for goofballs who just want a toy.
“Oh I have a Mac…I’m so different” –> loser Mac owner attitude.
Try trading stocks…building powerful spreadsheets…anything that requires true performance…and a Mac will let you down.
Get real…Mac’s … pffft.
Adam on November 15th, 2008 at 10:18 am
@ Rikit
When was the last time/What was the last Mac you tried to work on?
You obviously have not taken a serious look lately.
Go back under your bridge, you troll.
Joseph Gelis on November 15th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
It is really amazing how worked up and threatened so many PC users like Ritik get when they finally realize how superior Macs and the OSX are. I guess when you are the best, those that come in second are going to whine.
Ritik on November 17th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Worked up? Threatened?
By something thats made for the ‘artistic’?
You must be joking!
Anyhow, you dream your Mac dream JG!
(This message was sent from a real PC powered by MS Windows XP)
Emre Y. on November 17th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
Hahahaha :))) OSX and Mac’s are superior? Do you know whats inside a mac? An intel mainboard, an intel processor, a samsung or any other good ram manufacturer, seagate/maxtor or whatever HDD, ATI graphics card..do you want me to go on?..Basicly a mac is a PC wearing a posh aluminum outfit (and being sold at a premium price). and OSX is an operating system which is full of unnecessary animations, visual stuff that it just looks like a toy, and it bores me to death
Joseph Gelis on November 17th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
What more can I say Ritik. You are obviously content in driving your Ford. When I wake up every morning, I happily fire up my Jag.
Emre Y. on November 17th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
What a weak analogy..
Emre Y. on November 17th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
..and why would anyone feel threatened by osx? or an operating system in general!??..this is idiotic..we don’t own microsoft, and you don’t own apple, please wake up..its just a computer..
Joseph Gelis on November 17th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Wait a minute… This is the AppleBog. What are you PCs doing here? You don’t belong here.!!! Wait… I get it. You are closet-Macs. You publicly disdain Macs, but secretly, you can’t resist. You really want to be Macs, but just haven’t figured out how to come out of the PC closet. You just have to make the commitment and realize that you will be so much more happier when you make that decision and come to the Mac side. You wont regret it. I have to mingle with PCs at work and I can see the misery in their eyes, especially with this new vista thing. I really have pity on them. But we all have a choice. We need to follow our hearts. That is why I am a Mac.
Emre Y. on November 17th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Yes, be a mac, feel good about yourself. You are talking as if its something unattainable or something unique to yourself. ITS A PIECE OF MACHINE. Oh my god! I can’t believe you are actually in love with a commodity..poor joseph..I can just go and buy a mac tomorrow, and voila I am one of the mac users..how can you think that its a big deal? I use mac’s every single day at work, I use pc’s at work too…If you “mingle” with a computer thats your problem, and thats your incapability to make something work efficiently. Being on a “mac side” is just as easy as a few clicks and a few hundred dollars or a thousand..whatever..I don’t understand why you think its a big thing, thats all I don’t understand about mac users..Learning something new, learning a new language, visiting another culture, I can understand all these and I can appreciate all these..but when I see people who think they achieved something or they belong to an “elite” group because they own something I feel so sorry or those people..its waking up time..ITS JUST A PIECE OF MACHINE.
Emre Y. on November 17th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
You follow your heart and thats why you are a mac? How pathethic. You are a mac because you think owning a mac will distinguish you from the rest of the computer users. That is because adverts, movies etc are promoting that thought. But you will never be able to go out of that loop and realize that what you think is just what they want you to think. Don’t underestimate the power of marketing.
Make this experiment on your free time: Buy a few coca colas (or any other big brand), put them in generic containers and look at them. They don’t look appealing anymore do they?..The product is the same, taste is the same..but you don’t have the “brand name” and “image”…enlightened a little bit?
Joseph Gelis on November 17th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Your right. It is just a machine that I interact with. That is my choice. To each his or her own. I like Macs. You like PCs. And all is right with the world. Well, I guess I wouldn’t go that far.
Emre Y. on November 17th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
The world is perfect..yeah..running so smoothly around looks, fashion and mass marketing..anyway I hope you live happily after with your computer
Emre Y. on November 17th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
“I suspect life must be difficult for the PC designer who has great ideas to enhance user experience but is hampered simply because the OS was never designed to support those ideas. Sony, Fujitsu and Lenovo are, in my opinion, the three manufacturers who consistently produce remarkable design, whose industrial design I admire as much as that of Apple’s. Yet, the only way they can enhance software/hardware user experience is through the custom applications that serve their respective hardware.”
I suspect life for mac designer will be difficult now that nearly all hardware inside a mac is intel, ati etc and other third party manufacturers’ products.
Emre Y. on November 17th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
“The risk of disparities arising from the separation of software and hardware, with user experience as the casualty, is a risk neither he nor any one else at Apple will take, now and in the foreseeable future.”
Have you heard of the word “Intel”?..
Ritik on November 17th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Also, while you’re at it fellow Mac lover…try and think of any successful organization (other than Apple ofcourse)… that uses Macs…
I made an analogy that your moderator blocked last time…here goes again.
We live in a straight world…there are quite a few merry ‘not so straight’ people who are doing well and happy…they don’t bother me…or anything of the sort. BUT at the end of the day…this is a straight world.
Yes…and their shell is apparently better dressed!
Emre Y. on November 19th, 2008 at 9:33 am
You would also be delighted to find out that this website is most probably being served on a linux or xp based PC machine :)
Emre Y. on November 19th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Although I don’t appreciate the “straight” “non-straight” analogy a lot, I do agree that compatibility,power,very extensive range of software, scalability, much better networking, parallel processing and peripheral support all made using pc’s at very big workplaces (giant animation studios, banks, government, police, underground, basicly nearly all small, midsize and large businesses and probably 90-95% of domestic homes’ the only choice rather than “macs”
Joseph Gelis on November 19th, 2008 at 10:09 am
You win. I am giving up my Mac and am heading out the door to get me a PC. Can’t wait to get that baby fired up. I should have it up and running by next week. Life will be so good and mediocre being a part of the masses.
Ritik on November 19th, 2008 at 10:49 am
My apologies if the analogy was not well recieved. No offense meant.
Glad we could help you save yourself Mr. Gelis!
Emre Y. on November 19th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Joseph,
Very happy to hear that. Don’t worry you are not degraded by any means by owning something that more people owns. Think it as having eyes, ears and two hands :) Or actually don’t worry, just go out the brand new macbook pro with:
- All aluminum case
- Completely new design
- Probably not so many people own it at the moment
- Looks really good
- It has a new touchpad which also looks good
- Looks good
- Its aluminum
- Its new
- Its a new design
- Nobody has it
- Did I mention it looks good? even better than the previous one! (but of course less beautiful than the next one..)
Emre Y. on November 19th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Addendum: Paragraph 1, line 3: “..go out AND BUY the..”
Ritik on November 20th, 2008 at 11:11 am
And of course needless to say, ALL PCs include the ‘oh-so-essential’ right-click functionality!
Adam on November 20th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
“And of course needless to say, ALL PCs include the ‘oh-so-essential’ right-click functionality!”
So do ALL Macs – for at least a dozen years now.
If your “knowledge” of Macs is that out of date, then in the name of all that’s good and intelligent in this world, be quiet before you really embarrass yourself.
I use what works for me. You do too. If you want to try and change my mind then at least educate yourself.
Ritik on November 20th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
So you hold the apple button and click?
Goof.
Adam on November 20th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
As a matter of fact, no. IF you are using a very old Apple mouse you hold the control button. If you are using any two button USB mouse or the Apple Might mouse, you simply right click. Again, it’s been this way for over a decade. Would you like me to compare OSX to Win98?
I currently use a 4 button Logitech trackball and a 5 button Microsoft branded mouse. As a matter of fact I was using a 6 button mouse at one point a few years back and all six buttons were set for different functions. Worked like a dream. Oh, and before you bring up the trackpad on portables, place two fingers on the pad and click, or tap anywhere on the pad with two fingers.
Thanks for proving my point about your ignorance, though. How far into your mouth will that foot fit? So far it’s in to the ankle.
Ritik on November 20th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Irrespective….APPLE on its own does not have a right click.
You, apple lover, use a mouse that was designed for a PC so that your little apple…feels like a real computer!
Anyhow – enjoy real PC technology…!
Adam on November 20th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
I’ll say it again, as you obviously can’t be bothered to read. Use the Apple Mighty Mouse (which is now the only mouse Apple makes) OR use the built in trackpad on every Mac notebook.
Try reading everything, not just what you believe proves your point. Or is that how you preserve your arguments in the presence of incontrovertible fact? You’re up to mid shin now.
Incidentally, how many people who want the most out of their Windows computers don’t upgrade their mice? Not many of those I have ever met (and I am sure you realize that this is 90% of computer users I know). Mice aren’t designed for PCs any more than they are for Macs. Mice are designed to be platform agnostic and ubiquitous, that’s how their manufacturers capture market share. The only exception being those that are short sighted or cheap enough to only use the antiquated PS/2 interface (most of which now ship with PS/2 to USB adapters anyway). It is the OS that determines the available features and your argument fails dramatically on that front for more than a decade!
I can do this all month. You however are proving my point that not only do you not know of what you speak, you do not know how to read and process the information that is put in front of your face. Go enjoy your “superior” technology and leave me to enjoy mine. Or not. The less informed the argument, the easier it is to shoot it down. BANG!
Adam on November 20th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Whoops, I misspoke (but caught it). Atually the adapter I was thinking of for PS/2 – USB is the other way around allowing a USB mouse to connect to a PS/2 only computer.
Emre Y. on November 20th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
I just cant believe this turned into a “mouse” discussion!..Something mac users would love: If I am not mistaken apple first introduced mouse concept a few years before windows was designed.
There are much more important reasons why I don’t support mac’s. The biggest one is the availability of software. The “apple experience” is a closed circuit. Because apple is VERY VERY opposite of the “open source” and “open developement” concepts the software count available for mac’s are a tiny fraction of what you can find for the windows platform. This doesn’t only include games or fun things..BUT actually almost all job specific software (from engineering to design to aeronautics etc etc) can only be developed for windows.
Think about it. With a mac you are bound to what apple is offering you or a very small number of developers who develop for osx.
That is also the reason why “mac’s dont get viruses”. They can VERY WELL get viruses, but only if somebody actually devotes his time and writes a code for osx. Probably because there is no threat for osx if someone would decide to code a virus for mac it would be much easier. The reason why they don’t write viruses for mac’s is not because they are deeply in love with apple or macs. This is because it makes much more sense to make something that could actually spread to over 1 billion users rather than a few millions.
But of course apple (without feeling anything like a liar!) is using this misleadingly and market it as if macs are immune to viruses!..Its like saying I don’t get ill..well because you are DEAD!..
Emre Y. on November 20th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
I am in no position to tell people which computer they should use. I just go crazy when I see people who are forced (by adverts, promotions, word of mouth etc) believe things that are not actually true at all!..Like:
- Macs are faster
- OSX is better
- OSX doesn’t crash
- Macs have been used to design Bill Gates’ house
- Macs are more durable
- Windows systems crash often
etc etc
Here is an interesting fact for you:
The reason this blog can exist and the reason we can talk to each other right now is PC’s. Even if you like it or not. You can check and verify this. theappleblog.com is being served on rackspace.com which is a windows/linux based hosting service. http://www.rackspace.com if you don’t believe me go and see yourself!..
So before we speak and talk down something we should do our research and talk.
Never underestimate the power of advertisements.
Adam on November 21st, 2008 at 4:48 am
Background – I am a software Quality Engineer, I have worked in a variety of computing environments, and for 2 years I worked for Apple as a front line support technician. I don’t work for them anymore. I believe strongly in Macs, I also believe that for some people Windows may be a better choice. I do NOT believe in attacking another platform based on ignorance and lies (see previous posts).
@ Emre
Although I respectfully (very respectfully) disagree with you, I do compliment you on actually knowing some facts. Having said that:
Software – there are tens of thousands of software titles for Mac encompassing games, productivity, CAD/CAM, publishing, medical, legal, accounting, office, real estate, scientific, multimedia production, and so forth and so on. These titles are available commercially, as freeware and shareware, and are easily located with a websearch at sites like http://guide.apple.com or http://www.versiontracker.com – ad excellent resource for locating and reviewing software for Windows as well.
Viruses – security through obscurity is an argument that doesn’t hold water. Apple doesn’t tell anyone that Macs can’t get viruses, no one with half an understanding says that. What they say is that there are none right now and haven’t been for the 8 years of OSX. For the 16 years preceding that there were less than 20 recognized mac viruses. What makes OSX harder to code viruses for is the basic fact that with OSX you cannot install code or make modifications to the system without administrative password access. Vista is much better than its forbears in that I have to click “Yes” to authorize about 10% of what I do every day on my Vista machine at work including tasks I have authorized repeatedly (like opening an email from a known sender with an attachment), but I am never prompted to actually verify who I am. If I go for coffee without locking my Mac (I run both OSes simultaneously for my work BTW) you can very easily install whatever malicious code you want on Vista, but not on my OSX. Same thing goes for most malicious code execution. If the Mac starts to modify files it requires a password to continue. Ahh the joys of a UNIX underpinning. Yes vulnerabilities have been exposed in labs, yes they have been patched (usually within weeks) and so far no, they haven’t been exploited in the real world. By far the biggest threats for any computer these days are based on social engineering, not code, anyway.
“Macs don’t crash” – Of course Macs crash. On the whole my experience is that they don’t crash often and when they do it is usually the result of a bad hardware component or (and much more frequently) because someone installed software that either “customized” (read-modified) the OS intentionally (input managers are infamous for this) or that is known to cause issues on many platforms. LimeWire is evil people! Vista is now (post SP1) very stable as well, and XP is just as much of a rock as OSX. I just don’t care for them as much. You mentioned early on that inexperienced users are the biggest problem Windows has. I agree. That’s very often the case with Macs as well. In my opinion the learning curve for a Mac is less steep, though.
“Macs are faster” – Vista runs just as fast on my Macbook while OSX is also running as it does on Dells in the office costing time and a half as much. If I boot directly to Vista it is the fastest Vista machine around, beating Dells costing twice as much, all this despite having 50% of its RAM capacity installed. Mileage will vary, this is anecdotal only, use what you like.
“Macs are more durable” – Remember my job working as front line tech support at Apple? Average service life for a Mac in business is 7 to 10 years. Other PCs (Personal Computers not “Windows Machines” THAT bit of lazy terminology drives me nuts – they’re all PCs) typically run on 3 to 5 year upgrade cycles. Mileage varies depending on demands.
I will say that Macs hold their value for a long time, though. Check out what people are paying for them on eBay. A true measure of consumer value if there ever was one. The 2 year old Macbook I am using at home right now is virtually identical to one which recently sold for about 80% of its original price. If you can get 80% of retail for a 2 year old Dell, you impress me to no end.
As for getting real work done, I don’t equate “most work done on” with “most work requires”. I have worked at NASA Goddard Space Flight Center and I can assure you that critical calculations done for the US Space program are done on Macs. I supported both Macs and Windows while there, I know of what I speak. I don’t know about the current US President, but the last 2 before him (yes, his father included) used Macs. One of my clients when at Apple was a local, very busy and well respected, medical imaging facility. Their Macs do much of the imaging. There are many web hosting and colocation services running on X-serves and even Mac minis. Don’t take my word for it, Google it. I suspect that the Apple Blog is hosted on Windows or Linux coincidentally, not because the owner needed it to be so. My clients have included musicians, realtors, movie makers, lawyers, doctors, veterinarians, and Senators. In short, there is a LOT of business in MANY fields being done daily on Macs and OSX. It may not apply for you, but don’t write it off.
As for my “mouse discussion” I agree that it is ludicrous. I, like you, get fed up with people like Ritik who spout off and try to tell me I am wrong when they obviously know nothing that supports their so called “argument”. You may notice that until this post I have not responded to you directly. I disagree with you, but I do so respectfully because you actually put some effort into stating points that you know about. My second mouse posting was merely to point out the fact that if you are going to argue with me, you better actually read what you are attempting to refute.
Emre, I disagree with you. I think that we both have well informed points to make. I thank you for making your points in a logical, informed, and non-vindictive manner. I respect your opinions and I am glad that your solution works for you. My solution works for me. I would never deign to tell you that you should switch unless you sought out my opinions. As for the Apple ads? They are ads, they are meant to stretch the truth and get you to buy. That’s what ads do, and anyone who spends money based just on advertising not research is a fool. Put your energy into something that matters. There have been plenty of misleading Dell, MS, HP, Intel, Chrysler, Ford, etc… ads on TV. At least some ads are entertaining, although some are just inscrutable. Churro anyone? ;-)
A final point, and I hope all the Mac users out there read this, is about Viruses. When I consult about Macs I tell everyone the same thing and I always have especially when working for Apple: There are currently no viruses in circulation for Macs. I believe that the basic architecture of BSD Unix and OSX makes it more difficult to code viruses for Macs. It is very possible that viruses will crop up, though, and you can always easily send viruses to your Windows using family and friends if you don’t have an anti-virus strategy in place. There is a reason that every single Apple retail store sells anti-virus software and it’s not just to fill up the shelves. Every Apple retail employee I have spoken to has some version of this that they offer when asked about viruses. Ask questions, do your research. There is a reason.
Emre Y. on November 21st, 2008 at 6:30 am
ADAM,
Firstly, although you disagree to some points I have said, I also respect for your experience and your background on the subject. However I am seeing that you don’t 100% disagree with me, which is a good thing..
Software: Of course there are SOME titles for each type of sector, I never said there are NO software other than its own software. However, please give me a ballpark number about how many are there for the windows platform so that we can compare. Is this what apple people always do? A couple of days ago a systems engineer from apple was doing a seminar and in his presentation at some point he, as an incentive to buying a mac, said “there are 350 million people using quicktime therefore its connects you to world..blah blah blah”…However he never mentioned how many total users are there, and how many users are there for, say, windows media player…which I know for a fact that its a little bit more than 1 BILLION!..So what he was doing is called distorted statistics in favor of his own thought. Please lets stick to the reality. If you agree this please let me know: “There are much much much more titles available for PC’s than mac’s and IN REALITY if you go to an estate agent, an airline, nasa, a hospital, army etc etc etc you will see a windows machine, not a mac. This is mostly down to software availability and expenses. I will give you an example from my field, which is audio. If you work with professional sonic test equipment your only choice is windows, because ALL the professional test eqipment which can be connected to a computer are windows based. My partner works in a big architecture company and all they use are windows machines, and all over the UK the main platform for architecture (Autodesk CAD) is windows. Also, nearly all audio mastering houses use Sadie Systems which is again a windows only platform. Supermarkets use XP based POS, bank ATMS nearly exclusively use windows NT based software..All very critical jobs..
Here is the important bit: What I am trying to get at is definitely not “macs are not as good as pc’s” or anything similar to this…Its quite the opposite..I am against the thought that “PCs are inferior”. They are not, in the wrong hands, with inferior hardware put together from unknown sources and constantly downloading all kinds of junk software and installing them on a windows machine is definitely a recipe for disaster. However saying that this is purely because windows design is “wrong” or “bad” or whatever is just ignorant. I have been using windows based machines since windows 3.1 Of course there have been disasters like windows millennium, but microsoft actually IS trying to make a better software that would work perfectly. I am sure thats what apple is constantly doing as well. If you go to microsoft website and watch videos of their seminars for the upcoming windows 7 you would see how they are trying to address various issues and coming up with innovative solutions. So its not the dark side of the computing.
If there is a challange in software engineering it must be trying to build an operating system that would seamlessly work with thousands of hardware manufacturer’s products put together in endless combinations.
Viruses: I would extremely disagree that the main reason for not having so many mac viruses is because its harder to code. I would insist that if there is a little pond of water with a few fish in it, and an ocean full of every kind of fishes in it you would fish in the ocean, not the pond…Do you really think that hackers would just say “lets not code in osx, because its harder to do so”?
““Macs are faster” – Vista runs just as fast on my Macbook while OSX is also running as it does on Dells in the office costing time and a half as much. If I boot directly to Vista it is the fastest Vista machine around, beating Dells costing twice as much, all this despite having 50% of its RAM capacity installed. Mileage will vary, this is anecdotal only, use what you like.”
I ABSOLUTELY disagree what you are saying here. You have not given any information as to what settings are being used in the vista versions you have been benchmarking. It is IMPOSSIBLE to run two TOTALLY IDENTICAL copies of vista with exactly similar software running in the background and one of them having 50% ram working “faster”.
Macs are more durable discussion: I agree that mac’s hold their value. However the point I am trying to emphasize is this: When one talks about a mac they are talking about a spesific brand. However when they are comparing the macs to pcs, for some reason they pick either an average pc or worse. I am still using my IBM laptop made in mid 1990! and it works flawlessly, it might be the slowest machine on earth right now but it does work!..Thats the whole point in pc vs mac arguments. Whenever someone is in favour of macs, the pc side is always an unbranded pc made of cheapest hardware..that is my whole point.
Anyway..I will sum up. I am in no way affiliated with microsoft or linux or anything else. I use computers for business, fun, games, dvds, music etc..I exclusively use pc’s at home (which are very well designed by sony, in most ways better than any mac design if you ask me), they all run XP service pack 3 which is rock solid. I have never seen a blue screen, I have never crashed my computer, never lost any data, and never ever got viruses. It works perfectly. I can go online and select from a very wide selection of newest hardware, software for my desktop and upgrade it any time, even on my own, without any problems (and relatively cheaper due to wide availability). These point all make me extremely happy and that is why I don’t see any solid points as to make a switch to another platform.
Emre Y. on November 21st, 2008 at 7:16 am
Also..one more thing on marketing…
Have you seen the latest mac adverts depicting microsoft as spending more money on marketing its product rather than investing in trying to “solve problems”?
Well, thats not only false but its actually what apple is doing. Microsoft is releasing its second major service pack for Vista and already announced the upcoming operating system “windows seven”. In fact microsoft is spending billions for research and developement.
On contrary, Apple, compared to all other vendors is in the top place for spending more on marketing. Which actually turned out to be a good thing for apple, they have recovered from the serious shake happened 6-8 years ago (when microsoft bought 150 million worth of shares of Apple as “good manners and to keep the competition going”).
In short, negative is not a good strategy for firms. It wouldn’t get apple anywhere by trying to say that microsoft spends more money on advertising while actually they are doing it on a daily basis. People are not stupid. Focusing on things that other vendors do badly is a cheap solution that often backfires.
Apple, rather than focusing on what other do badly should focus on opportunities like other vendords do..Netbooks could be a good example..
Ritik on November 21st, 2008 at 7:44 am
Well, in all honesty, I am not particularly well acquainted with Macs – therefore I apologize if I came across as ignorant.
Thank you all for taking the time and trouble to better educate people like me.
I must say, I love the rotating touchpad of an iPod…FANTASTIC technology.
To conclude, while Macs have a bright future ahead of them, I believe that PC’s (isnt it funny how PC generally refers to the Windows platform?) will continue to dominate the market.
Adam on November 21st, 2008 at 8:06 am
Emre,
I am happy for you and your choice. I think we agree on a lot more than you even suspect.
Software: I absolutely agree that the choices are more vast for Windows. 90+% market share for over a decade will do that for you. I don’t care how many titles there are out there. My point is that more is not innately better and does not justify the argument that an alternative is unusable. I don’t have a ballpark figure for Windows because 1) I don’t care and 2) it’s not the point I am trying to make. The point I am trying to make is that there is software available and I don’t need 150 word processors, I generally need one. My personal preference is a GNU licensed piece of freeware called Bean.
To quote your comment #46:
“There are much more important reasons why I don’t support mac’s. The biggest one is the availability of software. The “apple experience” is a closed circuit. Because apple is VERY VERY opposite of the “open source” and “open developement” concepts the software count available for mac’s are a tiny fraction of what you can find for the windows platform.”
Actually, the Apple Developer program is free to join. The Darwin variant of BSD Unix is open source and freely available. Apple promotes free and open source software on their corporate website. Apple openly courts Unix developers. WebKit, which powers Safari and Google’s Chrome browser (ironically not available for Mac) is an open source, freely available product. Mac OSX is highly extensible through its use of BSD. Apple hosts annual development conferences for registered developers (even the free members such as myself) where they hold extensive seminars on coding for all manner of their software.
I grant you that my Macs are faster argument is flawed. Let’s look at that.
1) The RAM comment reflects the fact that my Mac has 50% of the RAM that it is capable of supporting installed. That means 2GB. Most of the PCs in my office also have 2 GB. Nowhere did I claim that the Mac had half the RAM of the other PC, sorry if that was unclear. My example was merely meant to reinforce that just because people claim a Mac can’t be faster does not make it so. I believe that what makes my Mac faster is a better processor, perhaps a faster hard drive. I maintain my OSX installation but the Vista installation on my Mac was done (and is maintained by) out IT department. They use the same image for all of our Vista PCs so the configuration is as close to identical as is reasonably possible.
PC World did in fact state that the fastest Windows Vista notebook they tested was a Mac. source http://www.pcworld.com/article/136649-3/in_pictures_the_most_notable_notebooks_of_2007.html
2) I very specifically stated that “Mileage will vary, this is anecdotal only, use what you like.” (emphasis added) The reason that I mentioned the fact that this is anecdotal was that I hoped to avoid just what happened with you. I was not putting forth the prospect that one hardware platform is innately faster than another. What I was saying was that contrary to your inference in comment 47 “…believe things that are not true at all … Macs are faster” a Mac can be faster in some instances including a very generic one that I happen to know about. Anecdotal evidence is not benchmarking. When I sit 2 machines side by side with no user launched programs running and basically identical installations of software, then I launch Internet Explorer (an optimized for Windows application if ever there was one) on both, if one finishes launching in 2 seconds and one finishes launching in 4, then I have anecdotal evidence of greater speed on the 2 second machine. I don’t do hardware benchmarks (nor did I claim to) I leave that to folks like PC Magazine.
I am glad to hear that your old IBM is running great. I agree that in 1990 it was damn tough to find better hardware than IBM, especially for a portable! I have friends running Macs built in the mid 80’s. The processors can’t handle modern web surfing, but that’s not what they are used for. You can, and many people do, use a computer for decades as long as you are OK with the fact that as applications and online media get more complex, that machine will start to become less capable/more slow. Good on ya!
Viruses, let’s agree to disagree as we evidently always will.
I think we both have the same problem. I don’t care that you find Windows better suited to your needs. I am happy that you have a tool that works for you. Just as you don’t like hearing some people denigrate Windows PCs based on ignorant and false claims, I don’t like the same unsupported animosity foisted on Macs. Personally I believe that your experiences vis a vis viruses, blue screens, freezes and the lack thereof is pretty uncommon. But so are many of my Mac successes. The simplistic reason for this is that we take the time to research and learn about our platform and how to use it wisely.
BTW: I wish I had the option to use XP SP3 for my Windows tasks at work. I get a blue screen or two almost weekly. It always occurs when Vista reboots after a Microsoft security update! Apple updates aren’t perfect, but I personally, anecdotally (grin) have never had that experience from them.
Wishing you Peace and Good Computing for the Holiday Season
Adam
Adam on November 21st, 2008 at 8:28 am
Ritik,
You are welcome, and your last comment is well said. If you are curious about Macs (although I don’t suspect you are – and that is fine) take a stop over at http://www.apple.com/retail and see if there is an Apple Store near you. The Holiday season is not ideal for this, but if you can get in early in the day when they aren’t too busy you can get pretty much any and all questions answered. I worked in one for over 2 years. If you go in and tell them that you have questions but are not intending to buy, they will still take the time to answer your questions and you can experiment on any of the kit that they have. They won’t pressure you, although they may ask if you’ve changed your mind yet, but they will be helpful. That’s what the Apple Store is all about. Expect to be asked if you want to buy, but if you get pressured, be sure to tell the store Manager on duty. That would be antithetical to the corporate policy and the staffer would get counseled. I would be very surprised to see that happen, though.
Enlightenment is the best tool we can give ourselves.
Cheers!
Emre Y. on November 21st, 2008 at 8:34 am
“My point is that more is not innately better” and thats true for mac software available as well of course. You don’t need 150 word processors, thats true, but it is good and beneficial to have 150 choices to select one that serves best for your needs. Joy of being able to choose from!
“Apple promotes free and open source software on their corporate website.” Dont you find this sentence and the fact that ipod, itouch, iphone can ONLY play .mov files but not any other movie format extremely contradictry? avi is also open source, compression formats divx, mpeg etc are all open-source, why no support?..
Speed: I understand what you are saying and that is exactly what I am fighting against: anecdotes rather than facts. This is not a mac thing though. Adverts are almost always flawed. They talk about 5 hours of battery life (but they don’t state that only happens when you do NOTHING on it!!!..) What I am saying is if there are no scientific tests you can’t really say something is more powerful. MAC World guys should also do some tests..just to let everybody know how much power we are really talking about, is it substantial? how much dollars per “power unit”..etc..
I agree about the vista with you. I deleted it in 1 month after using it. It was unusable for me. Probably thats why microsoft decided to release a sp3 or XP! after releasing Vista..
Macs are great, don’t get me wrong..Good looking os, decent machines, good design etc.. However my whole point is any decent XP or linux machine is as good as any mac, maybe even better if you think about prices..Thats my whole point..If I would won a mac from a draw etc I would probably try and use it..or maybe sell it as new and buy a much better new sony for the same money :)
Lets agree on disagree then…Nice debating with you :)
Cheers,
Emre
Emre Y. on November 21st, 2008 at 8:53 am
Just to clarify the vista vs macbook pro issue:
By the way macbook pro is NOT the fastest machine that can run vista:
“So there’s a bit of grumbling on the internets that PC World, like, totally sold out and lied about the MacBook Pro being the fastest Vista laptop they ever tested (presumably just so they could get mentioned in that new Apple commercial, right?) shortly before the staff went cow tipping and passed out drunk in a public park. The reality is PC World apparently hadn’t tested a laptop faster than the MacBook Pro at the time, and it wasn’t until weeks later they tested the Eurocom D900C Phantom-X, which handily bested Apple’s lappie by a broad margin. At least that’s what PC World’s editor Harry McCracken told us, but then again we did hear he recently got an Apple tat and is planning a hostile takeover of Macworld magazine in ‘08.”
This was written in http://www.engadget.com in 2007 (where the test for vista on macbook pro was done)
Emre Y. on November 21st, 2008 at 8:56 am
…and thats exactly what I am talking about: Wrong statistics, wrong data, wrong benchmarks and wrong advertisement…
Adam on November 21st, 2008 at 9:05 am
Last unsolicited comment, I promise. NASA uses Macs. They also use Windows and Unix. In fact, NASA is the perfect example of my main computing thesis:
Use the right tools (ie what works best for you) for the job.
No, you will not see many Macs in the public spaces but if you somehow got into the labs you would find plenty of them. When I was there seven years ago I installed some software on the laptop of the CIO of GSFC. What did the CIO choose to run his daily duties on? An Apple Powerbook. A G5 PowerMac came into my Apple Store for repair one day. It needed a new logic board (I didn’t do forensics on it and there wasn’t visible damage so I don’t know why, the possibilities are vast) and I personally repaired it. It was carried in by my old boss and bore the property sticker from Goddard Space Flight Center. In my 2 years repairing Macs for Apple I saw probably 10 or 12 different laptops come in from Goddard, most suffering from some sort of accidental damage while traveling including being viciously dropped by Homeland Security at the airports (all too common – you have been warned).
My former team lead from my days at Apple is back working for the Federal Government (I believe he’s at the FDA but I am not certain) supporting their Macs. Our team lead before him is now, after more than 5 happy years at Apple, supporting Macs at the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab and a good sailing buddy of mine works on his Mac daily at that same location.
Maybe it’s because I am in the U.S. but I find it disheartening to see people say things like “regardless of what you hear if you go to X,Y, Z you will find Windows, not Macs”. The reality is, of course that many of the public facing terminals are Windows terminals. Much of the heavy lifting is done by Macs, though. If someone tells you that they’ve worked at a corporation and worked on or with a Mac, I suggest you believe them until you can show otherwise. We may be a minority, but we are a hard working one regardless of what you may hear.
Emre says that if you go to NASA you will see windows not Mac. True in the public spaces, but Emre also says that he is in the UK. He says that Macs are expensive and expensive to upkeep. Apple is a U.S. company and in other countries there products are more expensive, I will give him that, because I don’t know what the comparative UK market costs are.
We are all subject to our experiences. It may very well be true that the U.S and U.K. perspectives are different. It is true, from what I gather, that in the U.K. Macs are further at the top of the cost curve than they are here and thus the price argument is a stronger one. Australia, and I expect other countries, too.
Perspective is such an important thing. Let’s remember that. I wish that there was a way to contact some of you all from this discussion without publishing my email across the Net (DON’T EVER do that) as I think the discussions we could have would be very interesting indeed. My thanks to The Apple Blog for giving us this forum
Happy Holidays
Emre Y. on November 21st, 2008 at 9:18 am
NASA vs XP issue:
“NASA has set January 2008 as a “target” for beginning the transition from Windows XP to Vista, according to a spokesman for the federal agency, which has approximately 60,000 Windows PCs.
NASA typically waits until a service pack is released for any new operating system to ensure stability, the spokesman says. (Microsoft has not indicated when it will release a service pack for Vista.) The interim also will be used to ensure that NASA’s applications are compatible with Vista and that its PCs meet the hardware requirements needed to run the operating system. ” John Foley, Information week, April 24 2007
“….Sep 16 ‘07
For Immediate Release
NASA today joins the ranks of the state governments of Illinois and Massachusetts in adopting Microsoft products across the board.
With help from the Interop Alliance Lab, a joint venture between Novell and Microsoft, all NASA servers will run a mixture of Suse Linux and Microsoft Windows.”
Emre Y. on November 21st, 2008 at 9:25 am
Also, please go to http://aom.giss.nasa.gov/pc.html This is goddard institute’s website..Go to software section and browse through what softwares they are using..I have checked if you don’t want to do it: PC Programs for Microsoft Windows or DOS or LINUX
Emre Y. on November 21st, 2008 at 9:28 am
..well my bet, two of them are actually both windows and mac osx..rest all windows
Adam on November 21st, 2008 at 10:17 am
And I am still in weekly contact with the Mac support staff there. The lead Mac Tech at Goddard is a friend. BANG!
The link you provided lists less than 2 dozen programs that are available for public download. BANG!
Don’t tell me you honestly believe that this is a comprehensive list of the software used by NASA?? I use more software than that at MY job. Furthermore, nothing on that page identifies what software NASA uses, only that these particular pieces are available for download. BANG!
How about checking out http://ccmc.gsfc.nasa.gov/downloads/widget.php which is also publicly available software for download from Goddard but is Mac only?
OR http://cdf.gsfc.nasa.gov/html/FAQ.html#intro
OR http://satc.gsfc.nasa.gov/tools/download/
For that matter go to http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/home/index.html and type Macintosh Software into the search box.
BANG!
All of these, just as your link are downloads that NASA makes available to the outside world. None of these, including your link, tell you exhaustively what NASA uses. If you knew anything about the U.S. Government (not that you should, being in the UK) you would know that the software and systems used may be classified and are often not published to the public without the filing of a Freedom Of Information Act lawsuit as a matter of National Interest and National Security. It’s the biggest bureaucracy on Earth for goodness sake!
Honestly, your absolute refusal to believe that NASA could possibly use Macs, all evidence to the contrary not withstanding is really starting to erode my respect. YES, NASA uses Windows. YES, the majority of their PCs are Windows PCs. YES they use Macs too. I have never indicated anything to the contrary.
Why you insist on making this uninformed, easily disputed, and poorly supported argument that NASA only uses Windows is completely beyond me. Now you’re just attacking for the sake of it.
I’ll say it again, NASA proves out my main computing thesis, they use the right tools for each job. Often that’s Windows, sometimes it ain’t. I don’t care what the press release says, especially one that comes from the United States Government. The phrase that’s always left off of such releases is “accept where not practical”. When I am getting head-hunted by people at Goddard because they need knowledgeable techs for Mac software rollout and support I feel pretty darn confident that they still use Macs.
I didn’t think I’d say this but perhaps you should get a life and pay some attention to PC blogs. If you’re going to make comments on an Apple blog just to prove your thesis that all of us who use them are stupid and wrong because we’re the only ones who do, (remember I use Windows too when it’s the best for the job) then you’re just blowing smoke and trolling. Alright, I took your bait, but in the name of all that’s good on the Earth can’t you show at least as much class as Ritik (who started an argument on mouse buttons as a reason for Windows superiority!) and admit that someone else might just know something you don’t? Or are you really as arrogant as my outgoing President??
Adam on November 21st, 2008 at 11:43 am
Emre,
I want to apologize for the tone of that paragraph, it was over the top. I do not appreciate being called a liar, however. Regardless of press accounts, the production facilities at Goddard use Macs. As Ripley would have said “Believe it or not.” I would point out that if your link to win and unix downloads is evidence of what is in use, then the press clipping is obviously incorrect as it states that nearly 2 years ago NASA would be moving to Win only.
Also, PC World did make the statement I claimed they did and at the end of the article I linked to they also said that this was no longer the case as of October 2007, (which was after the Mac ad initially aired I believe). Nothing in what I said was wrong, nothing in what you said was wrong. Engadget is hardly a neutral source of editorial comment. either. It’s a grandiose blog. As of the writing of that article I believe that PCWorld had not tested a faster machine.
Again it’s all about perspective. I live in the U.S. I come at the world from that (no doubt flawed) point of view. I live 15 minutes from Goddard. I have friends that work there. I have repaired Goddard owned Macs as recently as 14 months ago. To be told by someone an ocean away that I don’t know what I’m talking about was a bit insulting.
Emre Y. on November 21st, 2008 at 11:43 am
Ok, I am admitting that you know that nasa uses lots of macs. And macs are the best computers on the earth. You can’t go wrong with macs. Apple is the best firm. ok?
Emre Y. on November 21st, 2008 at 11:47 am
Adam, I am sorry for pushing it a lot as well. I just like debating, its my character. You really seem like a very nice person. Sometimes I do whatever is needed to prove my points and I might sound like I am accusing people of what they think is right..The discussion turned into a little bit of a stupid direction when we started to pull of random information from web :) Anyway, I am sure you are happy with your computer, I am happy with mine too, thats what matters!..If one day you need help with a pc you can reach me, I will do the same for macs..
Adam on November 21st, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Thanks, Emre
Macs aren’t the best computers on earth any more than Dells, HPs, Lenovos, or Sonys (Lenovo and Sony do make some nice stuff). Macs are just what I prefer and for some things they have IMHO an advantage. I am sure that Windows has the advantage in other areas, areas I am doubtless without a clue on. :)
Over all I also enjoyed our discussion and I concur that we both got a bit silly at the end there. I would like to redact a bit and return to a statement I made earlier
Peace and Good Computing for the Holiday Season! :D
Emre Y. on November 21st, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Happy holidays to everybody!.. :)